Engine and Transmission Tech

Occasionally, some one asks about using one of the Ford modular engines in an MGB, and the usual answer is - it won't fit! They are right! This month's issue of Street Rodder magazine has an article on these motors and includes a pictoral comparing the modular motor with a Ford 351 (wider and taller than a 302) and a Chevy 350.

How's this for mixed metaphor: A 4.6 DOHC modular motor with dual quad carburetors? Why not (except it won't fit).

It's a big motor for sure. I had one out of a Crown Vic sitting in the garage back before I painted my car so naturally I looked at it but it was just too tall and wide. Heavy too, but that was with the cast iron block. Still, I can't imagine the alloy motor being a lightweight. Lots of metal in that thing.

Jim

Same basic design that's in Jenny's Jag XK8. The Jag engine is all aluminum and sports quad cams and 32 valves, but basically the same block. It is wiiiiiiide though.

I didn't think a Big Block Buick would fit. Okay, so what if it spills over a little bit! "Where there's a will, there's a way."

In that same Street Rodder on page 51 they show a '40 Ford with one of those engines in it. It fits but there isn't much room to spare they couldn't even fit the air filter in and had to put it in the driver's side wheel well. I'm sure that element stays clean.. If you have ever seen a '40 with a SBF it almost looks lost in the bottom of the engine compartment.

Edit: Took another look and the air filter is on the passenger side. It still won't stay very clean.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2012 11:15AM by Jim Stabe.

If you want to be spoiled by engine compartment "caverns", look no further than the Jensen Healey/IMHO. roverman.

Quote:

Okay, so what if it spills over a little bit! "Where there's a will, there's a way."

It won't fit. There is no way to get it in an MGB. It'll never happen. It can't be done. Not even Jim Stabe or the BADASS crew can do it.

So, who's going to be the first to do it? I can't wait to see it done!

It could be possible. Based on a quick internet search, the dimensions could work and the weight is going to be around 500 lbs. Heavy but not impossible. I mean, if a SBC will work...
The heads are very good but do have some reliability issues. With a height of 28" and intake ports that come straight up out of the heads it is almost guaranteed to go through the hood but a pair of inline 4 bbl downdraft carbs or injectors would be bad as hell. Possibly a log exhaust like on the Roadmaster could be fit into the space available. Won't help with scavenging but...

I think you should do it Dan. Could be a sweet conversion.

Jim

Not "modular", but have you guys seen the latest addition to our Project Journal section? Mads in Denmark is putting a Jaguar S-type V6 (Ford) engine in his TVR. Nice!

Ok, So the "Mod" motor is 500lbs ? Iron block ? W/wo accessories ? Iron block Gen. II Hemi is approx. 485, this with a 62 lb. crank, and (1) heavy cam. roverman.

Nah, that is the aluminum block motor.

Jim

Ford modular engine weights and dimensions are given here:

[www.sullivanperformance.com]

> How's this for mixed metaphor: A 4.6 DOHC modular motor with dual quad carburetors?

I know a street rodder that is doing a Ford 4.6L DOHC V8 with downdraft Webers.

> It's a big motor for sure. I had one out of a Crown Vic

And that's the less wide SOHC version. The DOHC is wider still.
They are quite short though, as they were originally designed for
a tranverse FWD application.

> I can't imagine the alloy motor being a lightweight.

The 4.6L DOHC aluminum block engines are claimed to be around 425 lbs.

> Same basic design that's in Jenny's Jag XK8.

While both are DOHC V8's, the 4.0L Jaguar AJ-V8 is a completely different
design from the Ford 4.6L DOHC V8 with no parts interchange.

> It fits but there isn't much room to spare

The Ford 4.6L DOHC V8 is actually wider than a 460 big block Ford which is
wider than a Buick 455. I've got a set of 2004 Cobra heads sitting on my
bench. They are quite bulky. A few guys have swapped them into Panteras
which will accept a BBF with no body modifications. The inner fenders have
to be notched or the heads shaved to fit the 4.6L DOHC V8.

> the air filter is on the passenger side

Early Lincoln 4.6L DOHC V8 had the air entry at the back. The one in my
1963 Thunderbird roadster project is from a 1998 Lincoln Mk VIII and had
the side entry, as does the ported 2001 Mustang Cobra intake I'm using.

> The heads are very good but do have some reliability issues.

Ford has had a bunch of different heads on the modular V8s. Some flow
better than others. Besides the 2V and 3V versions, there were multiple
4V versions (B, C, 2003-2004, Ford GT, FR500, Navigator, etc.) all which
require compatible intake manifolds. The 2Vs are dogs. I'm using 2004
Cobra Mustang 4V versions for my project.

There were a number of teething problems and Ford didn't correct the three
thread spark plug holes until 2003, at least for the Lightning 2V heads.

> Possibly a log exhaust like on the Roadmaster could be fit into the space available.

Some of the stock tubular manifolds fit close to the block but are
restrictive. There are also compact shorty headers available. I've
got some JBA stainless steel shorties I won't be using if someone is
interested.

> So the "Mod" motor is 500lbs ? Iron block ? W/wo accessories ?

That's the weight listed for the iron block 4.6L SOHC, supposedly
with accesories. The 4.6L DOHC aluminum block engine is listed at
425 lbs.

If you select the right parts, they will handle an unreasonable amount of
power but building a normally aspirated 4.6L DOHC can get quite expensive.
The FRPP M-6550-T46 FR500 cam kit is considered the best deal in cams and
rings in at $1695.00 and you still need the TTY headbolt kit.

It's in a large American car, not a LBC, but I've got a few pictures of
my 4.6L DOHC project car here:

s1127.beta.photobucket.com/user/danielcjones2/library/Cars/1963 Thunderbird Roadster Project

A 1998 Lincoln Mk VIII served as the donor, supplying the aluminum block 4.6L
DOHC V8, as well as the automatic overdrive transmission, 4 wheel independent
suspension and disc brakes, rack and pinion steering, cooling, air ride, fuel
injection, aluminum driveshaft, etc. I still need to add some pictures of the
engine bits but the final engine will be:

1998 Lincoln 4.6L DOHC V8 (Tecksid aluminum block)
2001 Mustang Cobra intake manifold (cut, ported and welded back together)
Mach 1 lid
BBK dual bore throttle body
2004 Mustang Cobra heads
FRPP FR500 camshafts
Kooks long tube stainless headers

Dan Jones

Just another thought. Are the new Ford truck motor (Not Eco Boost) a 5.0L only an aluminum block. If so you should have many options that carry over from your 302 build!!

The 'new' 302 is also a modular engine - not related to the 'old' 302.

I have made a couple of posts on here but this is the first time that I have declared my intended build. In my shed I have the following (amongst many other bits and pieces) a 4.6 dohc modular engine, a bellhousing and a world class T5 gearbox and a Griffin radiator. There is also a complete irs from a Jaguar XJS and a set of narrowed driveshafts and wishbones. On the drive is a 1978 MGB GT. Due to pressure of work I have not started on this project yet but that should change over the next few months!
I have taken many measurements and I believe that it could fit, the length is 24 inches and the height varies from version to version (the MK8 Lincoln is only 24 inches high) The engine that I have is a brand new 1999 Cobra which was purchased at a silly price $1800 so if it will not fit I will recoup my money and install a Rover V8. The width is the problem at 28 inches but this is just over the cam sprockets, the heads narrow to 26 inches from there back.
My engine has the Teksid block and with a T5 gearbox should weigh about the same as the original 1800 engine and overdrive gearbox. In fact with the heavier Jaguar rear suspension a little more front end weight may help the balance. The Teksid alloy block weighs about 78lbs less than the iron block sohc engine, there are many quoted weights for these engines that vary a lot, it depends on alloy or cast iron block and just how many ancillaries are fitted
I have searched the internet many time to find that this is an impossible swap but have also seen others claim that the Lexus V8 is an easy swap. the Lexus engine is in fact a little larger but has the advantage in that the starter motor is in the "Vee" of the engine. hopefully I will make a start in the summer and will keep you posted on the progress, the other problem that I have is that we want to demolish and rebuild the front half of the house and that is scheduled for the summer as well, just as well my wife has recently said that we must start on the MG!
Philip

Philip, this is one of those rare cases where having the engine on hand is justification enough to see if it will fit and can be made to work. I have not heard of a Lexus/MGB swap. I know they have been used successfully in the Triumph TR-7 but it has a much wider engine bay.

Your steering and your exhaust are going to be the problem areas. You can move the firewall cone down and the '78 already has the u-joint tucked up to the rear and that may take care of it but you will know more once you can set the engine into place. Engine mounts may be challenging. We had to use a tubular log type exhaust on the MG-Roadmaster's Buick 455. You may have to consider something similar.

Let us know when you get the old engine out and are ready for a test fit. There are several members here who have been curious about this engine for quite some time.

Jim

Jim
It was not quite like it sounds, I had a 3.9 Rover engine and gearbox complete with all the mods to fit it into the MG, it was taken by error and unbelievably was buried on a building site, the culprit claimed that he could not pinpoint its position. It was time to start over again, I noticed that these engines were coming upon Ebay at frequent intervals and went to the sellers to measure both SOHC & DOHC engines. I chose the DOHC because it was 75lbs lighter and if the SOHC could be made to fit then the bigger engine should as well. The T5 gearbox came along with the input shaft for a Rover V8 so I hedged my bets there and will change input shafts if the engine fits. One point that I would make is that there is a huge amount of misleading information regarding this engine on the web particularly regarding weight, it appears that most people believe that the DOHC motor must weigh more and seem to add the 75 lbs weight saving from the alloy block on rather than subtracting it.
I forgot to mention that I also have a rubber bumper MGB GT bodyshell with no engine and transmission.I started to lower the modular engine into it but the oil filter and water inlet which is another obstacle to overcome got in the way, as my shed is 14 miles from where I live and I had no tools I came home without achieving anything.
You are absolutely correct that the engine mounts and exhaust are the big problems to overcome but as the engine is so short I may be able to move it forward although that puts it into the lower bonnet level area.
If you go to www. pistonheads.com page 39 (June 2009) of gassing under the heading of MGB V8 Conversion you will find someone who claims to have fitted a Lexus V8 into a MG B for $2300. I also read some where else that Dan Masters was asking someone else to document the same conversion and submit it to British V8. I figure if the Lexus engine will fit then the shorter modular motor will as well.
If anyone has any advice I will accept it with thanks, it may save me time and precious money, with the work on the house that will be in very short supply. This is the very first time that I have attempted an engine transplant and I may have chosen an impossible one but in the eighties I built a car from scratch, chassis and body work from steel tubing, plywood and alloy sheet the only items purchased ready made were the radiator surround the scuttle under the windscreen.
regards Philip
regards Philip



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2012 05:43AM by waterbucket.

> You are absolutely correct that the engine mounts and exhaust are the big problems to overcome

If you scroll down the page at:

[www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net]

there are a couple of pictures of a set of JBA stainless steel shorty headers for a 2003-2004
Mustang Cobra. Not sure if they would work in your application but they tuck up against the
block fairly tightly and being steel, instead of cast iron, can be easily cut and welded.

Dan Jones

Bill Young.

The mod motors and the Jag motor are not related. The Jag motor is the same basic motor as the V8 in the last Thunderbirds and the Lincoln LS. It is quite a bit smaller and lighter than the mod motors(all of them are aluminum blocks). The Rovers built just after the BOPR motor stopped is also a variant of the Jag motor. Where a mod won't fit, the Jag might.

There are several variants, the simplest is the T-bird motor at 3.9 liters and 290 hp. It has cam phasers only on the intake cams. The Jag comes in two flavors, the 4.0 NA and the 4.2 supercharged, they have cam phasers on both intake and exhaust and 300(?) and 400 hp. The Rover 4.4 has an entirely different intake setup with dual cam phasers, I don't know what they claim for hp, but they come in both NA and supercharged forms. Ford designed this motor at a time when they had substantial financial interest in both Jag and Rover as they were looking to replace the BOP in the Rover and the Jag straight 6 at the same time and the mod motors were too big for the Jag. Jag subsequently went it's own way and Rover was bought by BMW. BMW adopted the Ford motor as their own, as did Jag. The only American cars that ever had this motor were the Tbird and the Lincoln LS, neither is in production today.

RB