Engine and Transmission Tech

Is there a good source for hydraulic roller cam for a turbo 215/3.5?

You might PM Art, he has some Rover blanks. Also you might try TAPerformance.

Jim

Woodies is cutting a custom cam and providing shrouded hydraulic lifters for me right now

David, Does "Woody" list what masters/grinds, are available for his hyd. rollers ? The powdered metal, front wheel drive Buick V6, hyd roller lifter should work well,(short body, w.o. bleed-off issues). Onward, roverman.

Dan Jones chased this down for me and gave. him the specs on a duel pattern cam. Seems like he has a list also but not sure what it is. Did you ever come up with a girdle?

> Is there a good source for hydraulic roller cam for a turbo 215/3.5?

Woody Cooper of the Wedge Shop:

[www.thewedgeshopstore.com]

> David, Does "Woody" list what masters/grinds, are available for his hyd. rollers ?

Woody had a batch of hydraulic roller cam blanks with nominal specs of:

250 degrees @ 0.050
0.550" lift (assuming 1.6:1 rocker ratio)
110 LSA

Lobe separation angle can be varied +/-2 degrees (108 to 112) and the minimum
duration is 220 degrees @ 0.050" (maximum would be 280 degrees) with a minimum
lift is in the 0.510" to 0.520" range. Woody uses Erson to finish the cams
and Erson has several candidate lobes with 0.544" lift (assuming 1.6:1 rocker
ratio). They also had some more aggressive (i.e. higher ramp rate) but lower
lift lobes but were afraid we might break through the surface hardening of the
cam cores so recommended staying with the 0.544" lift lobes. Be aware the
catalog lobes are based upon a SBC base circle diameter. The actual cam timing
is altered for the catalog lobe when it is ground on the smaller (than SBC) base
circle Rover/Buick cam core. The three lobes I had to play with for Dave Bash's
cam were:

Lobe #1
284 degrees @ 0.006"
222 degrees @ 0.050"
0.541" lift (with 1.6:1 rocker ratio)

Lobe #2
289 degrees @ 0.006"
229 degrees @ 0.050"
0.536" lift (with 1.6:1 rocker ratio)

Lobe #3
294 degrees @ 0.006"
231 degrees @ 0.050"
0.544" lift (with 1.6:1 rocker ratio)

The best combination of the lobes and lobe separation angle (LSA) for Dave's particular engine combination turned out to be:

284/289 degrees @ 0.006"
222/229 degrees @ 0.050"
0.541"/0.536" lift
111 LSA installed on a 107 degrees ICL
64.5 degrees overlap
hydraulic intensity = [(284 + 289) - (222 + 226)]/2 = 62.5 degrees
2.52 ramp rate

Dan Jones

Roverman(Art), The short V6 lifters are actually Chevy (also used in Pontiac) 3100,3400 V6's and the S-10 2.2 four. They were first retrofitted in Buick V6's. The Buick V6 uses the longer lifters like the SBC. Paul was figuring out the spider. I think 2 Buick V6 ones welded/attached or the SBF modified. I gave him the dimensions of the 4.9 Cadillac spider I have. I see his posts on the Sunbeam Alpine board now and then. I don't know if he comes over here anymore.

David, "If" someone were to provide a girdle drawing, I would get it quoted, right away. I have plenty of optimum material,(7075-T6 alum.), X .75" thick, in stock. Jim N., has anyone test fitted a Cad. spider, into the RV8 ? I have (9) round lobe roller blanks left, and approx. (100) new/oem., take-out lifters,(fresh from the assembly line). Cheers, roverman.

I have your some pictures of your proposed. Girdle you sent me just wondering if one was available before the engine goes to shop for build I'm close , with large headers to be coated and either rebuilding harmonic balancer or buying ATI ? 215 internal balance one $$$ waiting 4 cam,lifters, n retaining plate also. Going c carb any thoughts. No carb not smart enough to fool c fi

Jim B. had mentioned an sbb girdle drawing, but I never got a look. David, your using a 215 block and 300 crank ? Rover 4.6L cranks are internal balanced = better for hiperf, with a cast crank. Bigger problem with girdle, is attachment hardware. ARM studs for pan rails are: a. not optimum for application and b. crazy expensive. I have went in "Dorman" direction. Onward, roverman.

The template I made for the crank girdle is not exact and is for a 340 rather than the 215/Rover (300 same as 340? I think so...) It is not difficult to make one though if you have a block to work from. If you already have the stock you can get some transfer screws to copy the pan bolt pattern to the material and do a similar trick with a spare set of pan bolts by chucking them in a lathe and turning a point on the top of the head. after the pan bolt holes are drilled the plate can be bolted to the block with the new transfer bolts in place and the bolts backed out to mark the plate. Drill that and the rest is trimming and spacing. Leave extra meat around the outside where the oil pickup goes through.

Some have cut the center of the caps to match the plate. I would not do this as you lose a great deal of truss strength by removing even a little metal in that area. Much better to relieve the plate for clearance and then provide one or two jack screws per cap to pre-tension the girdle over the cap.

Jim

Jim B and clan, 300 has same main bolt c/l as 215/rover. I suspect 340/350 is lager, do to 3" mains ? Cheers, roverman.

Would it be worthwhile to increase the size of the bolts from 1/4 to 5/16?

Back to the cam, I'm thinking about using o speak.solid roller lifters. From some of the information I'm seeing now, it would seem solids give much more accurate results. I want to maximize the "area under the curve" so to speak. The turbos are sized for 425HP and the fuel injection system will be also. The car will be automatic trans, probably LS Chevy computer, modified as necessary. Don't want ragged idle and low vacuum. Power brakes and a/c system need good idle/vacuum. I have never run a roller cam in a street machine, so I'm thinking fairly conservative duration and lsa, with a good amount of lift.Thoughts?

Art made up solid lifters along with his roller cam blanks.

Who is supplying your solid roller core? Pre-shaped cores like those offered by Woody at the Wedge Shop
have lobe shape limitations. Trying to grind an aggressive solid roller profile on a hydraulic roller
blank can break through the surface hardening treatment, ruining the core. This isn't a problem with
round lobe cores which are heat treated after the lobes are roughed in. Machining cost on a round lobe
core is very expensive for small runs.

Solid rollers also require substantially more spring pressure and, of course, a means of setting lash.
What sort of rockershaft and rocker amr set do you plan to use?

If you intend to run this on the street, be aware that many solid roller lifters have no provision for
oiling (other than spalsh lubrication). Prolonged idling on that sort of lifter can cause premature
failure. Some solid roller cam manufacturers suggest removing the intake manifold with each oil change
(3000 to 5000 miles) to inspect solid roller lifters run in street applications.

Also, be aware the Buick/Rover cam core has a smaller base circle than the small block Chevy base circle assumed
by most cam company lobe catalogs. The same lobe ground on a Buick/Rover core will have different timing events
than one ground on a SBC core. The small base circle also limits the lobe profile.

There are milder street solid roller profiles that will last longer on the street and are easier on the valve
train but the difference in performance (when compared to a hydraulic roller) is primarily in the valve float
RPM.

Dan Jones

Thanks for the input, Dan. It's not that I am looking for an aggressive cam profile, but more for the valve motion to be an accurate representation of the cam lobe motion. I am not looking for a lopey cam at all. I am looking to take advantage of the latest technology as far as cam, tuned port efi, and computers are concerned. I want vacuum accessories to work correctly, and I want reasonable fuel economy. What kind of cam specs would you suggest? I bought a pair of Porsche 996 turbos that are sized for 425 hp on a 3.6l engine. The blank for the cam is from the wedge shop. I haven't talked to anyone about grinding it yet. Probably hydraulic lifters are more practical. Transmission will be 4spd od auto (4L60).