Engine and Transmission Tech

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

Go to Thread: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicLog In


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: March 07, 2015 08:34PM

Hello,

I have been trying to start my 302 EFI with no luck, I get an occasional back fire but that is it. I have checked the following; I have verified spark, I verified that I have fuel pressure on the fuel rail, I verified my timing and verified that I have my distributor and spark plug wires are connected in the correct order. I plan on checking the injectors tomorrow to verify that they are firing.

I am using a 302HO from a 1990 Lincoln Mk VII and the associated wiring harness, I have cut out what is not needed and verified with a wiring diagram. I am using the computer from the Lincoln as well. What would cause a no start condition on a EFI computer.

I have made the following changes on the motor. I put aluminum heads, changed over the intake to the ford explorer intake, and used the explorer injectors. I changed the timing chain and replaced all the gaskets on the motor.

I am hoping somebody has some ideas out there, cause I am running out of things to check. Any help or information you may have would be great. Thanks in advance!


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(720 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: March 08, 2015 03:14AM

The two most likely in my mind from what you have done are the cam is out of time or the distributor is not in correctly. How did you verify the timing? Did the engine/computer run before all the changes or is this the first try to start the engine in the car?


88v8
Ivor Duarte
Gloucestershire UK
(682 posts)

Registered:
02/11/2010 04:29AM

Main British Car:
1974 Land Rover Lightweight V8

Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: 88v8
Date: March 08, 2015 07:20AM

Grrr, I hate non-starters.
And while it's not starting, it's wiping off all your cam lube and assembly grease. Not good.

If this were a carb system, then I too would suspect that the dizzy is one cylinder out of synch.

Personally, I prefer to admire efi systems in other peoples' cars.

Ivor


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: March 08, 2015 08:29PM

Jim
"The two most likely in my mind from what you have done are the cam is out of time or the distributor is not in correctly. How did you verify the timing? Did the engine/computer run before all the changes or is this the first try to start the engine in the car?"


I never removed the cam or the distributor. On my project journal I took pictures of my timing chain and it looks to be the same as when I took them off. I verified TDC by taking off the valve cover and verified that both rockers were closed. I also took out the spark plug and verified with a welding rod. On my harmonic balancer I am reading 10 at TDC. Also, before I took this engine and computer out of my donor car I verifed that the engine and computer were running.

I did go get a noid tester from the auto parts store today but did not get a chance to test my injectors, I have all my wiring documented, I am wondering if I do not have something connected that would give me a no start condtion from the computer?
Again any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.



Thanks in advanvce



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 08:53AM by 63BlueMGB.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1978 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: mgb260
Date: March 11, 2015 07:22PM

Neutral safety switch?


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: March 12, 2015 02:30AM

The best way to deal with this is to take a very systematic approach to the non starting problem Nick.
Because it backfires it suggests that you have spark and fuel.
The easiest check is the firing order. Ford used two different orders on the small blocks.
The early (carb'd) engines used 15426378.
The later EFI engines used 13726548.
Cylinder # 1 is the right (passenger) front cylinder. Then numbered consecutively down the right side.
#5 is the left front and so on.
Pull the left side valve cover and rotate the engine until cyl #6 rockers are "rocking" with the crank timing @ 0'. The exhaust rocker will be just closing while the intake is just starting to open.
This is now tdc for cyl #1. So start your firing order here.
I am going to guess that you can't get the rockers to rock evenly at 0'. Based on your pictures it looks like the cam is one or two teeth off.
Take care of this before you go any further.
If everything does line up then the next thing is a quick compression check. This is mostly to make sure that the valve geometry is correct.
I have run into a few issues with pushrod lengths on the aluminum head conversions. Basically the pushrods are too long and the valves get held open. If the compression is ok then the mechanical part of the equation is done and we'll need to look into the electrical side of things.

Live like you mean it
Fred


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: March 13, 2015 09:55PM

Fred
"Cylinder # 1 is the right (passenger) front cylinder. Then numbered consecutively down the right side.
#5 is the left front and so on.
Pull the left side valve cover and rotate the engine until cyl #6 rockers are "rocking" with the crank timing @ 0'. The exhaust rocker will be just closing while the intake is just starting to open.
This is now tdc for cyl #1. So start your firing order here.
I am going to guess that you can't get the rockers to rock evenly at 0'. Based on your pictures it looks like the cam is one or two teeth off. Take care of this before you go any further."
cylinder 1.jpg
cylinder 6#2.jpg
cylinder 6.jpg

So I took the valve covers off and verified that my #6 cylinder rockers were closed at 0 degree, Next I proceeded to start the compression checks at that is were I am at. I have no compression on any of my cylinders. I am not sure what to proceed to next. I thought about removing the rockers and performing a leak down test to see if it is my push rod lengths or if I have a gasket problem. What is the correct way to go about checking this. I have been looking at some youtube videos and I suspect that I have my rockers set wrong. I am going to loosen the rockers check for compression and then go back and recheck all my rockers. but if I am missing anything please feel free to help! Any help is appreciated



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2015 11:19AM by 63BlueMGB.



DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: March 16, 2015 07:13PM

Tight rockers is probably a pretty good assessment.
Pick any cylinder that has both valves closed and back the rockers off until they just become loose.
Now try a compression check on that cylinder. If you now have compression then you need to reset all of the rockers.
If you don't have compression then completely remove those two rockers and fit an airline to that cylinder. The hose from your compression tester generally works pretty good. Now air up that cylinder. The pressure doesn't really matter as we aren't measuring anything. We're looking for leaks. Take care as the engine will turn some as you apply air to the cylinder.
You will hear some air leaking into the crankcase past the rings. It shouldn't be much and it is normal and acceptable.
What you really want to pay attention to is the intake and exhaust. You should not hear any air leaking into either one.
If there is a leak the heads are going to have to come off for repair.


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: March 20, 2015 01:54AM

Fred,

Thank you for the help, I have not had a chance to perform a leak down test, it has been rainy and about the only way to work on my car anymore is to roll it outside ( the problem when you have too much stuff in your garage and no room to work). Went back to the procedure I used to put my engine together, and like you said I suspect the same thing you suggested. I suspect I did not put my roller rockers on correctly, I followed the procedure for using normal heads. I did have enough room in the garage to pull the top end back off my motor and check everything again and use the proper procedure to set my roller rockers. Tomorrow is suppose to be nice so I plan to roll the car out and do a couple things to check everything. After that hopefully I will have a successful start! Thanks for your help! I will reply back with what my test reveals.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: March 20, 2015 03:24AM

If you set your rockers to stock specs then you have a definite problem.
Resetting them correctly for the new setup will hopefully get you out of the woods.
Worst case is some bent valves from piston contact.
I'm betting that you're OK , so carry on.
Keep us up to date.

Live like you mean it
Fred


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Re: Help! No start on my 302 EFI
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: April 02, 2015 01:54AM

I started questioning the procedure I was using to put my engine together, so I removed the top end of the motor and started checking everthing twice. It seems everything that I did was correct except my rockers. So I finally got everything back together and a chance to roll the car back out of the garage and give it a try.

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

Thanks again for all the help, only a matter of time now!!!!!!!


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.