Engine and Transmission Tech

Hello new novice boy here. I posted this over on the MGExperience engine swaps forum to no avail. I know some of you inhabit that forum but I thought I might try here so I just signed up. I haven't really used your 'search engine' yet - just exploring the site as a member. I'm gathering information on replacing my new (to me) '79BGT with a Rover V8. Here's what I asked on MGE - perhaps you can help?

"I've been searching "which clutch" to no real avail. This is for either a Tremec TKO500 or T5 to a Rover 3.9 or possibly 4.6. I read a on the V8 Conversions page a suggestion to use the MGC cover (#GCC112) and V8 plate (#GCP208) and just use either a standard release bearing (or the roller release option) but which fork? In the two Williams' books I have he devotes very little to clutch options. I'm not going HOTB.

Do you have any links?

Welcome Barrie!

First things first, are you sure about your transmission choice? Clutches and slave cylinders will be small worries compared to transmissions, bellhousings, or flywheels. And... your clutch disc will need to mate to splines on the transmission's input shaft.

The "V8 Conversions" page you mentioned suggests an MGC cover and an MGB GT V8 plate because it presumes you're using an old MGB 4-speed. You won't want that gearbox behind a healthy 3.9 or 4.6.

If you study our How-It-Was-Done archive, you'll note that component purchases tend to vary between UK-built, US-built, and Australian-built swaps. You're in Queensland, right? I think you'll find it's relatively economical for you to get a Rover-to-Toyota bellhousing locally from Dellow. In North America, it's relatively easy for us to get Rover-to-Tremec/T5 bellhousings.

Two links to get you started:
[www.britishv8.org]
[www.britishv8.org]

Thanks Curtis. I have a 'package' quote from Dellow using the Tremec TKO600 including their bellhouse but the clutch is good for 400bhp and costs A$550. I know the TKO is a bit of 'overkill' (and I may just go T5) but I don't think I need a 400bhp capable clutch. They also include (for extra $) all the other bits eg thrust race and carrier. I was hoping to find an alternative clutch but I don't seem to get any hits on 'search'. I've replied without opening your two links - I'll leave that for tomorrow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2015 05:36AM by MGB567.

Barrie, overkill on your clutch just means three things: It'll last longer (good), it'll *possibly* but not certainly have higher pedal pressure and more inertia, and it *may* cost more. On balance, a little overkill in this area is not a bad thing usually.

Jim

Before buying a clutch disc, you'll just need to know some transmission input shaft dimensions and also how large your outside diameter can be (without interfering with pressure plate or flywheel.) I used a Chevy Camaro spec T5, which came with a 1.125" x 26 spline input shaft. I forget the spline measurements for a Ford Mustang spec T5. I know some old Chevy 4-speeds had just ten splines. What pressure plate mates to your flywheel? My pressure plate supports any clutch disc up to ~10.5 outside diameter. Armed with those measurements, any local auto parts store with reasonably helpful staff can probably supply me something that will work. I'm currently using a 1990s Camaro-spec disc. With the pressure plate I originally installed, I needed a smaller diameter disc so I bought and installed a Mercedes disc. (Compatible splines!) There are also shops that rebuild clutch discs, and they can mix and match components to create special combinations.

Thanks for the PM Curtis - all is behaving normally now and I can log out ie click 'log out' so then when I come back to the forum I can log in. I thought that not being logged out might have been why I wasn't seeing any update such as the two posts above.

Now to the business at hand. So a "overkill" clutch might not be a bad thing. When I added the costs of the V8Conversions suggestion it's not that short of the Dellow clutch package anyway. I erred and said TKO500 but their package is actually TKO600. They don't do TKO500 or Tremec T5 but I have a source for either of those as new. What I need to research is what if any difference there is in the mating of either of those two to Dellow's bellhouse. I also need to find out why they call their bellhouse "3.5 to 4.6" so I'll ring them and take up their offer to speak with Jeff (Dellow).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2015 05:48AM by MGB567.

Barrie, There belhousing fits Rover 3.5 to 4.6 (same bellhousing pattern. Also the same as 215 BOP. The TKO600 is huge and 6 speed. The bellhousing pattern is different than the T5. You can ship a D&D bell from the states for the T5 for less than the Dellow, plus its the right one.

Jim,

TKO is still 5sp, just 600 lb ft rating.

Barrie don't take this the wrong way, not trying to pick a fight. You seem so intent on having a trans that is massively overkill for some reason. I drive my 4.6L hard and never have had any issue with my Ford Motor Sport version T5. I shift it like a street car though, not a drag race car. ie slight pause from one gear to the next rather than slam shifting. There is lots of talk on the AC Cobra forums about the poor shifting feel of the TKO 500 compared to the T5. Save your self some $$ and just get a New WC Ford T5. Looks like about $1,000 to $1,500 more for the TKO vs comparable T5 kits including BH, Clutch etc. Even if you had 400 lb ft from a LS3 or something I doubt you would have an issue with the T5 because of the light weight and the limited traction in a MG. Also look at all the 'How it was done' cars from this site, not a single TKO in use.

Thanks Mike, I was thinking of the other 6 speed trans. I agree on the Ford T5 with D&D bellhousing as the best setup for new parts. How's your 4.6 running?

no chance I'd take it the wrong way Mike that's just the sort of advice I need. Dellow doesn't do a T5 but I have a source for new and rebuilt but they are for Ford or Holden (GM). I need to research which 'brand' is a better fit to a D&D bellhouse (point taken Jim) so I need to contact D&D about their bellhouse - they don't seem to advertise prices. But then I'm back to finding a new source for clutch/spigot/fork etc - any suggestions greatly appreciated or are those questions answered in the how to links in Curtis' first post which I confess I've yet to read - leaving that for the weekend.

Other than by phone which is not convenient anyone know how I contact D&D? (I can't find a 'contact us' email address.)

Barrie, Contact page has Email:

[www.aluminumv8.com]

Thanks Jim - previous hot links I had to aluminiumV8 took me to their bellhouse page (as did Google). Now I can check the price.

Hi, Barrie, Phone is the best way to reach D & D. Can you call on Skype?

Jack

If you are using the Mustang T5, I can recommend the Hays 95-201 clutch set, clutch, pressure plate and release bearing, although I don't know if it's the correct release bearing for whatever arm D&D uses for their bell housing.

I've got one behind a rowdy 331 CI SBF in a 1931 Model A, light pedal effort and enough travel between engaged an disengaged to not look spastic leaving a stop sign. ;)

I'm running a 1992 T5 with the Mustang bell housing with an external slave cylinder (as opposed to the stock cable) pushing the stock Mustang throw out lever.

Be aware, some of D&D's bellhousings do not have a window for the clutch fork.

"Be aware, some of D&D's bellhousings do not have a window for the clutch fork."

Yeah, it looks like some of their bell housings are designed with a Hydraulic Throw Out Bearing (HTOB) in mind, it's why I mentioned the release bearing (TOB) in the kit may not be correct.

However, if you could get one of their bell housings that used some "standard" (all from the same vehicle) clutch setup, that would be awesome come time to replace anything. :)

Barrie
In the UK there is a good source of T5 gearboxes for the Rover V8 engine, namely TVR. They bolt (with the bellhousing for the Rover engine) straight on and the clutch choice is enormous. The cheapest is probably the SDI and goes upwards via TVR to AP Racing, I have not checked the prices but think the AP one is about £350 and is rated at 339ftlb. The input shaft is 23 spline one inch also used on MGB. If you go down this route there are two points to remember fith gear is a 0.8 ratio and the gear lever is far to far forward. The solution to the gear lever position is to have the tailshaft casting replaced by one from a Ford Cosworth Sierra. I am not sure if the Sierra T5 bolts onto the Rover/TVR bellhousing (it is the same pattern as on the Ford 302). There are plenty of specialists that can do the above mods here in the UK. You will find brand new ex TVR gear sets (close ratio as found on the Ford 302) on ebay uk for £149. I hope this info may be of some use to you
Philip