Engine and Transmission Tech

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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JWD
Jim Durham
Gig Harbor, Wa.
(103 posts)

Registered:
01/22/2013 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Ford 302 (398.9 HP, 383.2 TQ)

Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: JWD
Date: June 26, 2017 11:43AM

Cooling issues seem to be a common topic on these conversions. As a refresher, I'm running a 400 HP Ford 302 in my MGB. For the cooling system I'm running a 22" crossflow aluminum rad., Maradyne 16" puller fan and a 180 thermostat. Pics. are in the HIWD - [www.britishv8.org]
In the Pacific Northwest, we typically don't have extremely hot weather. In 80 temps., the car stays at 180 and the fan never turns on unless sitting idle for an extended period of time. Then the temp. will climb to 190. the fan will run for a minute or so then shut off. Well, yesterday I took it for a long drive that included freeway (70 MPH) and residential (30 MPH) speeds with the outside temp. of 100. There was no difference in cooling performance. The fan only came on a couple times and the temp. never went above 190 which is the "ON" temp. for the fan.
All said and done, the car did just fine in those temps. Me, not so much. That's too hot to be in a convertible with black interior. 100 wind cools the car fine but NOT the driver.


pcmenten
Paul Menten

(235 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: June 26, 2017 04:24PM

A beautiful car.

Thanks for a 'real world report' of what works.

From looking at the HIWD, your car has;
- ceramic coated headers
- holes in the inner fender for the headers,

and does not have an oil cooler.

Has the radiator support panel been work to eliminate extra holes?


JWD
Jim Durham
Gig Harbor, Wa.
(103 posts)

Registered:
01/22/2013 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Ford 302 (398.9 HP, 383.2 TQ)

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: JWD
Date: June 26, 2017 05:19PM

Thanks Paul.
No oil cooler. I've never seen a need for one. I removed the factory "wings" that are welded to the fenderwell, mounted my rad. as far forward as possible and then welded in new wings that seal the side of the rad. I spent many hours welding up all the factory holes in the engine compartment but that was for looks, not function. Pretty much all the air that enters the front valance or the grill openings has to go through the rad. I was prepared to seal the top of the rad. to the underside of the hood if need be but it wasn't necessary. I spent a lot of time talking to radiator and fan manufacturers at SEMA one year and came up with this combination and it works very well. My only concern was what others said about getting the air out of the engine compartment and having to add louvers to the hood or some other openings. Thankfully, that isn't needed.
I'm still recovering from that 100 mile drive in 100. I was longing for some A/C on that drive.


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(176 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: mstemp
Date: June 26, 2017 05:38PM

Jim,

Who's rad did you use? At 22" wide I assume you had to cut into the 'front rails' to fit it? Any photos of that area by chance?

Thanks,
Mike


JWD
Jim Durham
Gig Harbor, Wa.
(103 posts)

Registered:
01/22/2013 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Ford 302 (398.9 HP, 383.2 TQ)

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: JWD
Date: June 26, 2017 06:45PM

Yes Mike, I had to cut and box in the front rails. No big deal and once re-inforced, as strong, if not stronger than original. I was limited to a 19" tall rad. as I didn't want it to hang down and worry about clearance issues. I also wanted as thin of a core as possible because of well, more clearance issues. All the rad. manufactures I talked to at SEMA agreed that a 19 X 22 crossflow aluminum rad. with 2 rows of 1" tubes would be the way to go and recommended the puller fan to use. The manufacturer of the rad. doesn't really matter. I got mine from Speedway Motors for $150.
I'm sure there are many different ways to achieve proper cooling. This is the way I chose and it worked incredibly well.
008-1.jpg
009-1.jpg


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(266 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: June 26, 2017 10:21PM

I hear ya about the hot weather Jim!
A couple of years ago when we drove the car to the Colorado Springs British V8 meet, we passed though some areas where it was 108F outside. The thermometer inside the car was reading 114F.
We found the best way to drive in extreme heat, was to drive with the top up, the back window un-zipped, side windows down, dash vents open and drink LOTS of cold water!

Bill


JWD
Jim Durham
Gig Harbor, Wa.
(103 posts)

Registered:
01/22/2013 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Ford 302 (398.9 HP, 383.2 TQ)

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: JWD
Date: June 26, 2017 11:24PM

Ya Bill, yesterday was one for the record books. A smarter person would have stayed home or at least driven a car with A/C. I had a commitment with the MG at the Shelton car show that I couldn't break.



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 27, 2017 10:38AM

A spritzer bottle full of water is a great idea on those hot drives out west. It's like squirting coolness on your skin. We did that going through Death Valley, Bakersfield, places like that.

Jim


302GT
Larry Shimp

(171 posts)

Registered:
11/17/2007 01:13PM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GT Ford 302 crate engine

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: 302GT
Date: June 28, 2017 02:18PM

I have a Ford v8, not at the 400 HP level but 328 at the wheels, so it is still reasonably powerful. I am using stock rubber bumper radiator supports (the forward versions), stock rubber bumper cooling fans, and an aluminum version of a stock MGB radiator (supplied by D&D). I installed through the fender headers and had them ceramic coated. There is no oil cooler and the remote oil filter is mounted in the engine compartment behind the left radiator support. The thermostat is a 180 degree item. In 95 degree weather the engine temperature stays at 200 or less and the cooling fans only come on at idle. The temperature is stable both on the highway and in traffic. In cooler weather the engine temperature stays at the thermostat temperature (180 degrees). So, it is possible to have adequate cooling even with mostly stock MGB components.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 29, 2017 10:45AM

It's also relatively easy to use thinwall square tube and run the forward frame rails out at an angle that matches the inner wing. This means the bumper support has to be relocated to match but that is a fairly simple mod, and it allows the use of up to about a 32" wide radiator and can retain the stock appearance. See the Roadmaster or 340 thread for details. Bear in mind these are extreme examples and pretty much exemplify the limits of what can be reasonably done. The same effect can be had with simpler methods.

Jim


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(176 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: mstemp
Date: July 06, 2017 08:56AM

JWD,

Thanks for the photos. Now if only I was a welder to seal it all back up. Now on my 3rd rad and its leaking from the core. One problem with aluminum rads, can't fix them easily when it's where the core meets the end plates. Epoxy seems to be the only way and so far not successful. This was a very expensive rad and it only has a few thousand miles. Perfect fit with only cutting the lower panel to pull the rad forward. If these rads only last a short time would rather make room for the 22x19 off the shelf stuff. Anyone else having issues with alloy rads?


JWD
Jim Durham
Gig Harbor, Wa.
(103 posts)

Registered:
01/22/2013 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Ford 302 (398.9 HP, 383.2 TQ)

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: JWD
Date: July 06, 2017 11:49AM

Mike, Do you have a ground wire running from the radiator to the frame? Your aluminum radiator will be eaten from the inside out by stray current in the coolant if it isn't grounded and depending on the current, it can happen quickly. Years ago I read an article in a body shop trade magazine on this problem. Some were neglecting to re-install the factory ground wire when doing front end repairs and the radiator was being consumed and started leaking. There's lots of info. out there on the subject - [www.aaen.com.au]


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(176 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: mstemp
Date: July 06, 2017 12:19PM

JDW,

Interesting. Had not thought of that but the Rad is grounded by its mounts in the side panels etc. I will try my DVM in the tank to make sure though. I must state though the first rad was not anyone's fault but my own (jack slipped), second was a stop gap fix due to the first issue. But this last rad is just a dribble from the RHS. Will try some Epoxy again when I get the chance. If no luck its cutting time then on the rails, I am not paying $520 USD again for another Rad!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2017 03:15PM by mstemp.


pcmenten
Paul Menten

(235 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: July 06, 2017 02:50PM

Mike, good point about repairing aluminum radiators. I had been starting to come around to the idea of using an aluminum radiator in a project but now I'll content myself to using traditional copper/brass parts.

I remember reading that copper/brass transmits heat better because IR frequencies are transferred better by copper than other materials.

Paul


JWD
Jim Durham
Gig Harbor, Wa.
(103 posts)

Registered:
01/22/2013 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Ford 302 (398.9 HP, 383.2 TQ)

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: JWD
Date: July 06, 2017 03:17PM

I prefer aluminum over brass/copper radiators any day of the week. That's all I've used in everything I've built in the last 30+ years, which is approx. 15 different cars. Never had a single issue with cooling or a leak in any of them.



mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(176 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: mstemp
Date: July 06, 2017 06:06PM

Paul,

As Jim mentioned earlier lots of different ways to solve the cooling issues. Who knows, maybe my present issue is electrolytic corrosion. Seeing as I have a sacrificial drain plug in the Rad, plus the Rad is in direct metal to metal contact with the Rad support panels, I doubt it but until I tests it I cannot claim its not the cause. Now if you use the 19x22" generic rads and only pay $150 we would not be having this chat. The setup I used was from a specialist in MGB V8 conversions and was very costly. The alloy is not easily repaired and too expensive to redo in the same manner. Hence looking at alternatives. I am not a fan of Down flow 65 Mustang rads for whatever reason. So JWD setup looks appealing. There use to be a Howe 19 x 19" (HRE-342I) rad that almost fits. Would need some trimming of the side chassis rails, not a full cut like Jim shows here though. Anyone with experience with Howe Racing rads?


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1210 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: July 06, 2017 07:21PM

Hey Mike,

I've used aluminium rads by Northern for years. Never had a corrosion or stress failure.
They are fully aluminium with tig welded tanks and furnace brazed tubing. Tig welded billet fittings and no epoxy anywhere!
Lordco carries them and the last one I purchased was a 19 X 31" crossflow for under $200.00 cad. ( that's free in usd.)
Make sure that you mount them so that they float in rubber bushings. This avoids the vibration transfer that cracks the core.

Cheers
Fred


JWD
Jim Durham
Gig Harbor, Wa.
(103 posts)

Registered:
01/22/2013 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Ford 302 (398.9 HP, 383.2 TQ)

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: JWD
Date: July 06, 2017 09:17PM

While a copper/brass rad. may have a SLIGHTLY better BTU rejection factor over aluminum, on equal sized rads., the copper one will be over twice the weight due to requiring thicker materials. That may be important to some of us conversion guys that don't want the added weight way out front. There's a reason that car manufacturers have used aluminum rads. for decades.


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(968 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: July 07, 2017 08:43AM

Quote:
There's a reason that car manufacturers have used aluminum rads. for decades.
Yep!...because they are lighter and cheaper to produce. It's all about the almighty buck, not performance.


donkelly23
Don Kelly
Charleston, SC
(65 posts)

Registered:
07/21/2011 05:13PM

Main British Car:
1980 TR7 V8 Z28 FI ECM 4.0

Re: Ultimate cooling system test
Posted by: donkelly23
Date: July 07, 2017 09:20AM

Never mind



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2017 09:22AM by donkelly23.
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