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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5646 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 16, 2018 10:15AM

I would not be afraid to do a bit of cutting and TIG welding to modify the filter mount on those. You're quite a ways from the pump cavity. I think you should be able to put it just about anywhere you like.

Jim


RDMG
Dave R
Northern Virginia
(107 posts)

Registered:
04/07/2016 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: RDMG
Date: June 19, 2018 03:55PM

I just realized youre already facing the oil filter close tolerances problem.

I have looked all over for a bolt-on solution to give more remote oil filter clearance, and have only a few ideas:

Theres one remote filter maker that has the two hose ports going 90 degrees from the filter screw post, and offset. One is centered on the cap, the other is to the side of it. I was thinking I could use that, rotate it 90 degrees so the ports face the right wheel of the car, then use hoses with elbows, giving maybe another 1/2 of clearance near the rack. I cant find the exact piece, but you could start with these and cut/fabricate a bit:

[www.summitracing.com]

[old-stf.com]

[www.sailnet.com]

Im hoping to find an OEM part that has a flat face I can drill to match the factory elbow screw holes, but so far Ive struck out.

Im trying to avoid customizing the cover, since its a wearable item.

The 4.0/4.6 cover also has brass plugs for an optional oil cooler. it may be possible to use one or both of those as the in or the out for the remote filter lines, allowing a lower profile custom cap on the stock filter location.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2018 03:57PM by RDMG.


RDMG
Dave R
Northern Virginia
(107 posts)

Registered:
04/07/2016 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: RDMG
Date: June 19, 2018 04:08PM

Found it!

Look at the Rover/Buick v8 reference halfway down the page. Im not sure, but it looks like part I is a bolt-on piece using four screws. Not sure if the pattern matches the 4.0/4.6 though, might be for 3.5L engines.

Alternatively, part P rotated 90 degrees toward the wheel will give you a bit more room, I think.

[www.mocal.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2018 04:14PM by RDMG.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5646 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 19, 2018 06:20PM

Yeah, "I" is for the 215/3.5L cover and is a lower oil pump cover.

You might be able to use banjo fittings for a tight 90* bend. They should be available to fit whatever threads you are working with.

Jim


RDMG
Dave R
Northern Virginia
(107 posts)

Registered:
04/07/2016 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: RDMG
Date: June 23, 2018 08:55PM

I finally got a close & greasy look at my 4.6 this weekend, and I think you can skip all aftermarket angle pieces for a remote oil filter.

The two large bolts on the front cover above the oil filter are each tied directly to an out or in oil passage in the front cover.

I think braided hoses will screw right into those bolt holes.

Then blank off the original filter location using a drain plug or bolt with sealer to seal off the center passage, and an aluminum plate with 4 holes and some gasket material to match those on the machined surface that used to mate with the 70-degree elbow.

Clearance problems solved!


galotis
George Van Horn
Collegeville, Pa
(34 posts)

Registered:
05/13/2014 05:40PM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB 1.9L Supercharged, Microsquirt EFI, ESDI.

Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: galotis
Date: June 26, 2018 07:29PM

Dave, I will look the two bolts, and see if that will work, thanks for all the input.


RDMG
Dave R
Northern Virginia
(107 posts)

Registered:
04/07/2016 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: RDMG
Date: June 26, 2018 08:40PM

Youre very welcome, glad I could contribute.

Im still googling the problem, and I think the bypass bungs on the 4.6 cover are M20x1.5 threads. Theres cheap AN12 adapters available.

According to this thread on another board, [www.v8forum.co.uk] , be sure to check the bottom bolt closely, I think the Rover oil filler hoses that used those holes had a special fitting on the bottom hole to fully block off the internal passage.

Another possible option (Ive not seen it actually done, but it looks good) is a Buick 3.8 v6 cover from the late 1980s;

[www.aamidwest.com]

Look for part #s TC181C and TC181D, using the crank-driven oil pump. One of them has an inverted u-shaped oil filter adapter that likely fits right over the MGB steering rack. Would be an elegant answer for a 4.6 megasquirt setup, if it all fits. You may have to buy the later style Buick splined oil pump gears separately. Likely also requires a Buick 215 oil pan, or Rover SD1 oil pan to match the front cover bolt holes, but that gives you more ground clearance anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2018 09:31PM by RDMG.



mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(189 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: mstemp
Date: July 19, 2018 01:56PM

Dave,

That TC181D is an interesting possibility. Would need a water pump to fit it, possibly different rotation? Also not sure what that opening below the water pump is for. Anyone ever tried match one up to the Rover?


RDMG
Dave R
Northern Virginia
(107 posts)

Registered:
04/07/2016 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: RDMG
Date: July 20, 2018 01:21PM

Sadly, I cant help further. I dont think anyone has put that style of Buick cover onto a 4.0/4.6. I expect the water pump would be different, but probably very cheap and easy to find.

Google Buick v6 timing cover gerotor oil pump crankshaft, or some combo of that, and some Buick-specific threads will pop up. A few guys have welded two different covers together to make a gerotor pump cover with a distributor boss, and some other guys have retrofitted Series II covers onto series I blocks. Based on the oil-passage discussions in all those threads, I think it all could work with some minimum fabrication. There may be one oil passage off a bit, but Im not sure. Buick changed its block casting in 1988-ish, rebranding it from the 3.8 to the 3800. I think the timing cover above is for the LN3 vin c engines, one of the last 3.8s, but Im not sure.

I cant tell from the internet if there would be an issue with the oil pump drive keys, crankshaft length, or space for timing chain. It looks like one set of Buick pump gears would mate with a rover crank. Presumably the later rover cranks are long enough, and others have used spacers to seal any gaps between non-stock rover covers and later cranks. Some of the Buick guys mention timing chain clearance, but Im not sure of those details.

I did all the digging for these covers hoping to find a non-Rover timing cover with a distributor and a gerotor oil pump, but Im now pretty sure that Buick didnt make one.

The Rover 3.9 interim cover puts the oil filter flange in a bad spot, so bad that you cant drop one into an MGB without moving the rack first. I was hoping Buick would be the solution.

If youre not looking to experiment, Im thinking a remote filter off the 4.0 cover is the way to go.


MrNick
Nickolas Beckius
Colorado Springs, CO
(30 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2009 03:14PM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: MrNick
Date: August 21, 2018 11:49AM

I really need to hop on this site more often.

So to solve the oil filter issue I just found a cheap "universal" remote filter adapter that was the right size. I placed the remote filter in the very front of the passenger front wheel well. It should be out of the way enough to be safe, it's not far from the engine, and replacing the filter for an oil change should be easy.

I'll see if I can get some pictures up in the next day or two.

I also just finished the alternator setup (Ford 4G 130amp) and serpentine belt yesterday. The Ford 4G alternator from a V8 Explorer that was a junkyard pick and ended up working even better than I could have hoped do to its mounts and short length. It sits on the front of the cylinder head, I fabbed up a mount to put the stock tensioner on the other head and the belt routing spins the pump the correct way. The only thing I dislike about it is I can't find a 7-groove pulley for the alternator so I'm running a 6-rib belt. Worst case scenario is I have a custom pulley milled, but I don't want to spend that kind of cash right now.

A new problem I'm now running into is the coolant hoses. The GEMS P38s had the stupidest coolant system setup I've ever seen with a weird thermostat/multiple hose junction pod. The intake does have a legacy spot for a traditional thermostat in the housing, but I'm not sure how all the hose routing is going to work. Also does anybody know if someone still builds a swivel thermostat housing? Or does anyone have one laying in the garage that they'd part with?

I'm quickly approaching the point where I'm going to be wiring up the MS3 and setting that up. Gonna need Curtis to hold my hand through that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2018 11:55AM by MrNick.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3496 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: August 21, 2018 12:33PM

"Gonna need Curtis to hold my hand through that."

Are you aware he no longer resides in Colorado?


MrNick
Nickolas Beckius
Colorado Springs, CO
(30 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2009 03:14PM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: MrNick
Date: August 21, 2018 12:49PM

>Are you aware he no longer resides in Colorado?

Well that's gonna make things a bit more inconvenient.


MrNick
Nickolas Beckius
Colorado Springs, CO
(30 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2009 03:14PM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: MrNick
Date: August 21, 2018 06:15PM

Some pics:

Looking in the wheel well you can see the filter relocation adapter above the steering and the hoses coming out into the wheel well
20180821_151842.jpg

Which lead to the remote filter tucked safely away. If it seems like it's getting too dirty or anything I'll fab up a little sheet metal shield to protect it more, but I think it'll be fine.
20180821_151835.jpg

And a view from above, you can see the hoses down there. Also shows the Ford 4G alternator and serp belt.
20180821_151811_2.jpg

I looked through all my emails and stuff but I couldn't find which exact part I ordered for the filter adapter. I think I got it from Summit Racing. I just looked up the threads for the filter and found an adapter that matched and had in & out ports on the same side. The one I used in particular also had 2 ports opposite and came with block off plugs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2018 06:18PM by MrNick.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5646 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 22, 2018 12:46PM

With no more load than the alternator and water pump that will probably work OK, but for future reference please take note that the tensioner is in the wrong place, in fact nearly the worst place possible. It should be on the slack side of the belt, just before the driving pulley (crankshaft) with the pivot outside and below the tensioning pulley. That way it applies the most tension to the loosest part of the belt. Yours could loosen under rapid acceleration, but chances are good it'll be alright. You should check it by winging the throttle open a few times. If the belt does jump grooves at some point you will know where to look.

Jim


MrNick
Nickolas Beckius
Colorado Springs, CO
(30 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2009 03:14PM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

authors avatar
Re: Rover 4.0 & Megasquirt
Posted by: MrNick
Date: August 22, 2018 07:42PM

Hadn't thought of that. I'll play with it when I get it running and if need be I can put an idler pulley there and move the tensioner.

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