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IaTR6
Dennis Costello
Central Iowa
(148 posts)

Registered:
12/29/2007 02:53PM

Main British Car:
'73 TR 6 '97 Explorer 5.0

oil viscosity and lifter noise
Posted by: IaTR6
Date: August 20, 2019 05:42PM

Drawing on the collective wisdom of the group, I would like to hear thoughts on my predicament.
I have a Ford 5.0 (302) that is supposed to be a low mileage '97 that is a factory roller cam engine.
I replaced the original cam with a Comp Cams XE-264-HR cam, and used new 1.6 ratio roller rockers with new pushrods that I made
every effort to determine the correct length. I did reuse the factory roller lifters rather than changing to the Comp
lifters.
Now, my issue is: at cold start, the valve train is relatively quiet, but after thorough warm-up it become increasingly noisy.
It continues the clatter volume increase until it gets to the sound of a 60's solid lifter cam. Internet searches have suggested others have this issue,
and no solution has surfaced. Maybe the lifters cannot take the spring load and/or the ramp rate of the cam? Since it is quiet
at start-up, should I consider going to a 10-40 oil from the 5-30 I am using? I have read tons on oils, and would prefer to stay with
the thinner viscosity as long as the pressure is ok. I'm currently showing 50 lbs at cruise of 2000 rpm, for what that is worth. (original Smiths gauge)
I have ~3000 miles on the install, and no ill effects so far that would indicate an issue.
Thanks,
Dennis


88v8
Ivor Duarte
Gloucestershire UK
(689 posts)

Registered:
02/11/2010 04:29AM

Main British Car:
1974 Land Rover Lightweight V8

Re: oil viscosity and lifter noise
Posted by: 88v8
Date: August 21, 2019 02:23PM

New cam old lifters is bad, regardless of other issues.
It doesn't take long for the lifters to bed to the cam. Putting a new cam in there is liable to cause rapid wear.

So while the oil is cold/thick.it's OK. then when it thins it's not.
Yes, that would seem to be telling you something.

Try an oil change. If it's no better, what have you lost.............

Ivor


kstevusa
kelly stevenson
Southern Middle Tennessee
(930 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 09:37AM

Main British Car:
2003 Jaguar XK8 Coupe 4.2L DOHC/ VVT / 6sp. AT

authors avatar
Re: oil viscosity and lifter noise
Posted by: kstevusa
Date: August 21, 2019 03:27PM

Maybe a TIP passed to me by a Ford friend would help. There is a specific method to adjusting the roller lifters on a 5.0L roller motor. Ford has a kit to achieve the proper clearance. Maybe Google Ford Roller Lifter adjustment Kit. I added the same cam to my motor,Alum. X-302 Heads with FMS Blue Rockers and re-used the OEM roller lifters and Push Rods with no problem. Sold the car in 2015 and drove it in June 2019 at our Wytheville Va. meet. No noise still. Used the following method to do this properly:
There is a very specific procedure for installing the rockers - you don't just tighten them. Each pair should be installed when the lifters for the pair are on the base circle of the cam - that is, the valves are completely closed. The rocker arm bolt should be tightened by hand until there is zero lash - that is, no gap between either the pushrod end or the valve stem end. From that point they should be torqued to 17-20 ft-lbs, and that torque should be reached somewhere between 1/4 turn and 1 turn of the bolt. If it takes more than 1 turn you may have to place a shim under that rocker fulcrum.
The shims come in .030", .060" and .090" thicknesses, but it's likely if all your components are stock that the only one you may need on some of the valves is the .030" thickness. Each one of those will reduce the number of turns to torque by about 1/4 turn. I'd ask the mechanic if that's the procedure he/she used, and if not, I'd go back and reinstall each pair accordingly.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1994 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: oil viscosity and lifter noise
Posted by: mgb260
Date: August 21, 2019 08:12PM

Ivor, you can reuse roller lifters. Still recommend they stay in same bores. Dennis, I'd try Kelly's method first for proper preload. It could be you need slightly longer pushrods (more preload) due to more clearance on the used lifters and pushrods.


IaTR6
Dennis Costello
Central Iowa
(148 posts)

Registered:
12/29/2007 02:53PM

Main British Car:
'73 TR 6 '97 Explorer 5.0

Re: oil viscosity and lifter noise
Posted by: IaTR6
Date: August 23, 2019 10:59PM

Ivor, Kelly and Jim,
First of all, thank you for responding to my question. Jim is correct as far as I can determine, that roller
lifters are a different situation from flat tappet, and can be reused. The point is well taken however, that I may have used false economy in not replacing the lifters.
I did replace the pushrods with what I believed to be the new correct length. I made every effort to have the rocker roller
movement in the center of the valve tip.
Now, as Kelly lists the steps for correctly setting preload, I see an assumption that I made that is possibly the root cause.
Although I have stud mount rockers, and not pedestal mount, what I did was different from his explanation. I assumed
that if the opposite valve in the pair was opening, then the valve I wanted to adjust would be on the base circle. After reading
the procedure on the Ford Performance site, I can see where it is possible to have both lifters off the base circle. So, I
need to reset the preload using the correct procedure! Argh! Hopefully, the starting quiet indicates I may not be that far off, and there won't be any damage, especially metal filings in the valve covers.
I will report back with the results-and thanks again!
Dennis


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(1083 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: oil viscosity and lifter noise
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: August 24, 2019 08:15AM

Here's the Ford Racing instruction sheet for setting pedestal rockers that Kelly was alluding to.
[performanceparts.ford.com]


IaTR6
Dennis Costello
Central Iowa
(148 posts)

Registered:
12/29/2007 02:53PM

Main British Car:
'73 TR 6 '97 Explorer 5.0

Re: oil viscosity and lifter noise
Posted by: IaTR6
Date: September 01, 2019 08:34PM

I have aftermarket heads with stud mount rockers. I removed a rocker nut and measured the stud threads and found them
to be 24 tpi. From this I determined one turn of the adjusting nut would move the nut down .042" To achieve the lifter preload
of .060 I turned the nut down one turn plus three flats after finger tight. I carefully followed the procedure of adjusting the rockers by setting the intake when the exhaust begins to open, and setting the exhaust after the intake just closed. The geometry had been checked before, and new longer pushrods were used to achieve the roller contact in the center of the valve stem tip.
There was nothing under the valve cover to indicate trouble.
After the resetting of the rockers, I started the engine and there was no change in valve noise.
I did a search and found quite a number of articles on valve noise with Comp XE cams. Folks have tried different oil viscosities,
lifters and preloads, all to no avail. Interestingly, some, like Kelly, have no issues at all. No one seems to know why that is. I will
just ignore the sound.
Thanks to everyone who offered help, I appreciate it very much.
Dennis



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