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Shanto
Shant Yaz

(8 posts)

Registered:
09/30/2019 11:59PM

Main British Car:


what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: Shanto
Date: October 16, 2019 05:05PM

long story short, the 300 cranked 215 in my car is broken and i dont know if its worth it to fix it right now.
ill gladly go into detail for anyone interested, but its been a long road to this point so far and ill try to keep it short for the time being.

i have a freshly rebuilt 4.6 rover longblock. the casting on the block reads cr9.35:1 96D03823A
i also have a ls1 engine with all the conversion parts to adapt it to my t10 transmission.

the rover swap would not require any chassis modifications, but will require numerous parts.
the ls1 swap doesnt need parts but would require a good amount of chassis modifications.

so i am weighing my options.

The rover is currently setup for EFI. meaning it has a crank sensor in place, as well as efi front cover with serpentine belt style pulleys.

i would like to know what parts are needed in order to make the change from the 215 to the 4.6?

off the top of my head:

rover 4.6 flywheel
rover 4.6 starter
rover 4.6 pressure plate
chevy 10 spline disc
rover to gm pilot bearing/bushing
front timing cover
crankshaft pulley and accessories
oil pump

the mounting holes for the alternator bracket do seem to be configured differently than the buick as well, so id imagine id need special brackets and pulleys to convert it to v belt drive.

will the 300 intake manifold fit and line up properly?

is the oil pan bolt pattern the same? i currently have a fabricated aluminum pan to clear the crossmember.

will the exhaust manifolds bolt on and line up properly?

the rear crank flange is significantly different than the buick, as well as the external balanced flywheel, so i am assuming that a 4.6 flywheel, clutch pressure plate, starter should work. i currently have the oem aluminum 215 manual bellhousing.

i believe i also read somewhere that i have to change the camshaft to one that can accommodate a distributor drive gear. does this mean i also need to change out the lifters and pushrods. if i change the camshaft i might as well put a more aggressive grind in which would for sure require aftermarket pushrods and valve springs.

with all that being said, how hard is it to convert to EFI. i see range rovers all the time around our local dismantlers, so im sure i could get the oem parts fairly easily. are there any tuning programs that can be used to reflash the stock calibration?

it seems that if i were to run EFI i would be able to bypass quite a few of the parts on my list.

in the meantime i will search around the site to find information on the topic, but would love to hear from you experienced folks if there is anything i missed or any hidden pitfalls along the way.
though my experience has been short i love driving this car and cant wait to get it back on the road.


RDMG
Dave R
Northern Virginia
(127 posts)

Registered:
04/07/2016 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB 4.6L Rover V8

Re: what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: RDMG
Date: October 16, 2019 08:42PM

Im in the middle of something similar. Wish I had all the details sorted out, but not yet!

To go the carbureted route, Youll need the intake, front cover, oil pan, cam, and distributor from your 215. (Or new versions of them.)

4.6L manual trans flywheels are very rare, and are very heavy. You might want to go with a fidanza aluminum flywheel, or some custom Rv8 lightweight steel ones on UK eBay. All of those have no clutch holes, so drill em for whatever clutch pressure plate you want.

To go the EFI route, youll have significant challenges. Some of the Land Rover sites have some threads on this, but it generally involves a new trigger wheel, fabricated crank sensor, and mega squirt. The last factory Bosch efi systems used an odd trigger wheel pattern that MS doesnt recognize (I think), and it uses a returnees high pressure fuel rail that adds fuel tank and pump complications. More common is to retrofit the mid-1990s GEMS era EFI to mega squirt. A good compromise could be to swap over all your hardware from the 215, with a FiTech type EFI throttle body on the 215 intake.

You have to swap to the old style front cover if you want to fit your custom 215 era oil pan. That means giving up the crank-driven oil pump, and fitting a distributor. The 4.6 crank nose is also longer than the 2-5, so your pully alignment may be a challenge too.


minorv8
Jukka Harkola

(186 posts)

Registered:
04/08/2009 06:50AM

Main British Car:
Morris Minor Rover V8

Re: what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: minorv8
Date: October 17, 2019 01:18AM

How much power do you want ? Guessing from the pic you posted in another thread you have a Volvo 122 (or Amazon as they are also called in Europe). It s a tank so it can take quite a lot power. Realistic number for 4.6 litre is around 280 hp mark with good heads. If your goal is more than that, its either a very expensive Rover based engine or dirt cheap LS. Realistically, it is almost impossible to make a Rover as powerful as a basic, mildly tuned LS1.

I would not hesitate a second would do my conversion again. I am glad that I dont even have to consider that since a LS in a Morris Minor would be utterly illegal in my country.

But a simple solution is that you use the 4.6 short block and use all existing stuff from your old 215. Timing gears, cam, heads, pulley, flywheel etc. The only extra bit you will need is a spacer to fit the crank pulley to the 4.6 crank. No issues with the pulley alignment. You may need to fit a spigot bearing to the crank if the 4.6 came from automatic vehicle.

I converted my engine to EFi a couple of years ago and it was a bit of a nightmare. I used a Haltech ECU that was bought new. Due to various reasons the EFI Project happened almost 10 years later than originally planned and the ECU was already a discontinued Project. To make things worse, the user manual did not match the actual product so there was quite a lot of trial and error. But I got it running.

Here is a link to a Volvo enthusiasts site. There is a turbo 4 Project that also includes a swap to rack and pinion:
[kulmamies.kuvat.fi]

Another one is a P180 that is also converted to rack and pinion: [kulmamies.kuvat.fi]

For more Volvos, see [kulmamies.kuvat.fi]


Shanto
Shant Yaz

(8 posts)

Registered:
09/30/2019 11:59PM

Main British Car:


Re: what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: Shanto
Date: October 18, 2019 12:59PM

RDMG,

thanks for the information. what a bummer i was hoping that there would be a bolt together solution for such a common engine. i guess we cant always be so lucky. haha

i thought i had seen flywheels for sale on some of the rover parts sites, but after closer inspection they are just flexplates for auto trans. dang it would have made life a lot simpler if they were readily available.

i suppose i could transfer all my old stuff over, but need to ensure all the oil ports line up. the 215 block and timing cover i have now have had the oil passages modified to support oil volume to the pump and engine.

with 5/30 oil i was getting 40-45 psi cold pressure and 15-18 hot.

however when i got it, it had the booster plate thing with longer gears on it. i have read that those gears put more strain on the distributor drive and can cause premature front cam bearing wear.

the timing cover had a little bit of wear on the oil pump surfaces. so ideally i would want a new one.

it just seems like there is a lot to do in order to make this conversion. not as identical as some people made it seem in other threads ive read.


Shanto
Shant Yaz

(8 posts)

Registered:
09/30/2019 11:59PM

Main British Car:


Re: what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: Shanto
Date: October 18, 2019 01:17PM

Minorv8,

yes, it is a volvo 122s. it is quite stout of a car. i wont lie, the car did feel great with the 300 ci engine it.
possibly a bit under power, but it was down 1 or 2 cylinders. if i had to guess it was making 220 hp in that condition.

the ls motor i have might be a little overkill for this car. it ran 10.4@ 124 mph in my 2900 lb camaro. but that was with a dedicated racing chassis and turbo 400 trans. it will be slightly detuned in the volvo due to exhaust packaging constraints and a different cam i have on the shelf better oriented for the street. the gm 10 bolt diff in the volvo is LSD but its only 2.73 gear whereas i had 4.10 is the camaro. but in a 2400 lb car it will definitely still go well into the 10s with traction.

with the 215 in it, it felt like a mid 13 second car. which is plenty quick for most people, but left a bit to be desired with me.

interesting thoughts on running the 300 heads to retain all the buick style accessories. the heads on that engine have been ported with 3 angle valve job. they have also been milled down a bit. i just had them welded and resurfaced to fix some corrosion around the coolant port before reassembling the engine, so i know that they are good. i currently have head studs, which i am sure probably wont work in the rover block unless for some weird reason they have sae threads. one of the heads had very minor collapsing of the bolt bosses, i believe due to them being overtorqued by the previous owner trying to stop the hg leak he had.
but i used large thick washers with the head studs and they did not distort any more and held their torque @ 65 lb ft.

the only thing odd to me is RDMG said the rover crank snout is longer. im assuming its because of the crank driven pump. you are saying to use a spacer on the crank pulley. wouldnt i have to machine the crank snout? or is there a spacer that goes around it that will allow me to put a bolt through it and lock it down securely.
either way i would have to figure out where i can buy a neutral balance crank pulley since the buick 300 is externally balanced. i believe the the 215 may work, but im unsure if it will have the correct pulley alignment.

i also dont want to run into a EFI conversion nightmare, and quite honestly seems like a bit of an unneeded hassle. the carb conversion seems like the easiest route to take where i can scavenge most of my old parts.
so i really need to make the decision if i want to turn two motors into one or completely start fresh and do the ls swap.

it looked so good with the buick in there. very period correct. if i put the ls in it its just going to be another ls swap.


minorv8
Jukka Harkola

(186 posts)

Registered:
04/08/2009 06:50AM

Main British Car:
Morris Minor Rover V8

Re: what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: minorv8
Date: October 19, 2019 02:29AM

[www.google.com]

The spacer is fitted on the crank nose underneath the crank pulley bolt and washer. Rover V8 has SAE threads so 215 stud will be OK. I believe 4.6 engines may actually have external balancing. My 4.6 runs Rover 3.5 pulley and McLeod flywheel. It has not been balanced but runs reasonably smooth to 6000+ rpm.

I am assembling a 5.1 litre stroker with 4.6 style stroker crank and that required external balancing with weights in front pulley and flywheel.


Shanto
Shant Yaz

(8 posts)

Registered:
09/30/2019 11:59PM

Main British Car:


Re: what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: Shanto
Date: October 22, 2019 01:43PM

thanks for the tip. makes perfect sense after seeing it.

i believe i am going to go the ls1 route.

id hate to take apart two motors to make 1, spend even more money, and end up with something im not entirely happy about.

what do you think the rebuilt 4.6 is worth if i try to sell it? the PO said it had t top liners installed, but he could have just been blowing smoke up my arse. i do know for sure that it is a 0 mile rebuild after inspecting it with a bore scope.

what about the 300 parts? from what ive heard the intake manifold, exhaust manifolds and bellhousing are pretty rare?

The heads have been ported, with dual valve springs and port matched intake. one of the heads was professionally welded and resurfaced due to a little corrosion by the coolant port.

the block has been sleeved and the bore is now 3.75"
the crank mains remain at 2.5". for whatever reason, they decided to align bore the block rather than cut down the 300 crank mains to fit. SBC rods and i believe 305 pistons.

as far as im concerned i believe it to be a cracked liner. had great hot and cold oil pressure with 5/30 oil.
i honestly think its an easy fix. im just done with it.

id give someone a hell of a deal if they were interested in everything.

i am located in pasadena, ca. a suburb of los angeles.



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5853 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: what is needed to convert 215 swap to 4.6 rover
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: October 24, 2019 11:02AM

Have you considered using a 300, possibly with the 350 crank? Yes, you do pick up a little weight that way, the engine weighs 400lbs as opposed to somewhere between 318 and 350 depending on which 215/Rover you use, but your 300 heads and intake work fine, the bellhousing is about $100 and you can go up to 5.7L with a .050" overbore.

Jim


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