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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(80 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

TA Rover Heads
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: August 21, 2022 04:40PM

Hi all,

I'm guessing this subject has been covered elsewhere, but I can't find anything. I found these TA Performance heads for the Rover/215: [www.taperformance.com] I *think* they may be out of production, so before I start looking around, I thought I'd ask if anyone has compared these heads for flow to the best you can accomplish with the aluminum (1964) Buick 300 heads. I'm talking new/larger valves and springs, ported and polished. I have both a Rover 3.5 and a Buick 300. I intend to stroke one of them (likely the 300 with a 350 crank I have) but *maybe* the 3.5 with the 300 crank. I know the stock heads on both of these engines don't flow well, and I realize the 300 heads are a bit better. So trying to decide what to do. One of these engines will go into my MGB-GT Sebring project.

As an aside, I have already gotten some Nascar con rods for the 300, so I'm leaning towards the 300, but open to both.

Thanks much!


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2241 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: mgb260
Date: August 21, 2022 04:47PM

I'd say the 300 heads are inbetween the 3.5/215 and the TA Rover heads. The later Rover 4.0/4.6 stock heads are inbetween the 3.5/215 heads and the 300 heads. If you stroke the 3.5 I would recommend the later 4.0/4.6 Rover heads. I would use ported 300 heads on a unstroked 300 and TA Rover heads on a stroked 300. Just my opinion on displacement vs potential HP in those motors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2022 04:49PM by mgb260.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2241 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: mgb260
Date: August 21, 2022 05:06PM

There are also Wildcat heads, $811 pair at today's exchange rate, similar to the TA Rover heads but would require intake and exhaust work to fit stock intake and headers.

[www.automotivecomp.com]

[www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk]

Matching intake:

[thewedgeshopstore.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2022 05:29PM by mgb260.


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(80 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: August 21, 2022 08:54PM

Thanks Jim. Will those Wildcat heads work with the 300? And where did you see the price for them? The Lloyd Specialists price seems to be about $4,000. At $811, that would seem to be an amazing bargain. And also, would the matching intake fit the Wildcat heads on the 300? The combination of a stroked 300 with those heads and intake would seem to be a killer combination--if it would work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2022 09:01PM by Airwreckc.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2241 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: mgb260
Date: August 21, 2022 10:01PM

Eric, price is for pair of bare heads direct from ACR at current exchange rate. You would have to figure best shipping price. EDIT Price is higher now, that link is from 2017.You would have to make a valley plate and spacers for the 300. Heads and intake combo fit on 3.9 or larger Rover V8. Chamber diameter and valve size are too big for 3.5/215. Here is the link:

[www.automotivecomp.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2022 10:03PM by mgb260.


minorv8
Jukka Harkola

(251 posts)

Registered:
04/08/2009 06:50AM

Main British Car:
Morris Minor Rover V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: minorv8
Date: August 22, 2022 04:16AM

TA sell their heads as Rover V8 but do they really suit 215 engine´s 3,5" bore ? I assume that valves are 1,94" / 1,5 or 1,6" like in Wildcat heads and require 94 mm (3,7") or larger bore.

I have finally got my engine with Wildcat heads running and should get it set up on chassis dyno later this fall. Please note that the price quoted above is for bare heads that require a LOT of porting. If you need to source that to someone else total price will go up. I did my own porting.


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(80 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: August 22, 2022 08:41AM

Jukka, what engine did you put the Wildcat heads on?



7sand8s
Dennis Miller

(32 posts)

Registered:
09/21/2008 10:47PM

Main British Car:


Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: 7sand8s
Date: August 22, 2022 10:16AM

Info about the Rover Heads from the TA website:
[taperformance.com] page 15


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 22, 2022 10:52AM

I have a set of the TA heads on my stroker 300, engine is not yet complete. Very well made heads. I fitted them with 1.9" intakes and 1.6" exhausts. Didn't bother with any porting. They come with a light machine porting job as shipped and an optional heavier machine porting job is available. I bought the bare heads, they cost me about $1500 and although that is expensive I feel like I got good value. If I was planning to run N/A I would consider the optional porting, especially if I planned to put the car on the track. But realistically, in an MGB it would be more of a bragging right than really being needed. Depends on how you build your car.

You have to watch your chamber volume. The TA heads have the same size chambers as the late Rover heads, so the smart move is to build your engine with the late Rover heads and later upgrade to the TA heads if you want more top end. The 300 heads have a much larger chamber and we've begun to suspect that the difference in flow between the 300 alloys and the late Rover heads may not be all that much. Just to throw another variable into the mix, the 300 iron heads, which weigh 17lbs more than the 215 heads and probably less than 15lbs more than the Rover heads are considerably better than either one but of course not as good as the TA heads. And if you use them or the 300 alloys you cut off your upgrade path. But the irons are pretty good heads and can also be ported to flow rather well. BTW, the TA heads are also heavier but not as heavy as the irons.

The TA/TRS-Rover heads were derived from their legendary Buick V6 heads where in turbo trim they make over 1000hp in drag cars like the Buick Grand National. TRS commissioned the production run then had an exclusive for about a year after they came to market in order to recover their costs before TA offered them in their lineup. TA may have depleted their stock, you'd have to ask and I'm not sure what their plans are for the next run of castings, but if the delivery date is too far out I understand TRS still has them, though at a bit of a premium. IIRC it comes out to around another $300 for bare heads. That can and might have already changed of course. I suspect there might be a clause in the contract requiring TA to delay the next casting run if TRS stock remains above a stated minimum but of course I wouldn't know any of the details. But it makes sense. It would give them a marketing advantage at both ends of the contract if needed, and apparently it was needed.

Jim



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2022 11:03AM by BlownMGB-V8.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2241 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: mgb260
Date: August 22, 2022 11:00AM

More info on Wildcat heads:

[roverv8wildcatheads.home.blog]


Blown v8
Bryan Phipps

(70 posts)

Registered:
03/10/2013 04:52PM

Main British Car:


Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: Blown v8
Date: August 22, 2022 12:26PM

What’s needed,is someone to do a direct flow test on the TA’s and wildcat heads,


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 22, 2022 01:54PM

Dan Jones has the flow bench results for the TA heads. Pretty impressive. Don't know about the Wildcat heads but you can be sure somebody has done the comparison.

My impression just from what I've seen and heard is that well ported Wildcat heads can be competitive with TA heads but may not be the equal of fully ported TA heads. YMMV.

Jim


minorv8
Jukka Harkola

(251 posts)

Registered:
04/08/2009 06:50AM

Main British Car:
Morris Minor Rover V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: minorv8
Date: August 23, 2022 03:33AM

Eric, my engine is a mix of surplus parts: 91.5 mm stroke TVR spec crank, SBC Chevy 5,95" rods modified to suit the crank, 3.720" stroker pistons in a later cross bolted mains block.

I have flow bench results of my home ported Wildcat heads.


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(80 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: August 23, 2022 05:06PM

I reached out to ACR and got an information packet on the Wildcat heads. Still uncertain if they will work on the 300 block, but apparently they are undrilled, so they can fit the stud layout of Rover or Buick. I did find this interesting flow comparison that I thought might be useful to others.
Heads Flow Rate.png


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2241 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: mgb260
Date: August 23, 2022 05:17PM

Eric, Did you get a price? Looks like better flow than the TA heads. My understanding is the ports are raised on intake and exhaust. The intake bolt holes are straight up instead of 15 degrees like Buick and Rover. I'll attach pictures of spacers used to fit Rover/215 intakes.
Huffaker_2.jpg
Huffaker_3.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2022 05:22PM by mgb260.



minorv8
Jukka Harkola

(251 posts)

Registered:
04/08/2009 06:50AM

Main British Car:
Morris Minor Rover V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: minorv8
Date: August 24, 2022 01:52AM

Yes, both ports are raised and intake bolts are at 90 degrees, not angled as in std ports. Eric, they have all the necessary drillings to fit Rover block. Casting quality of Wildcat heads could be better, my heads have fair amount of small pores at the surfaces. Quality of Rover factory castings is way better. Again, a question of whether this affects the function or not. So far it looks like I do not have an issue with the porosity.

My Wildcat heads flow 233 cfm (in) and 185 cfm (ex) @ 0,5" lift. Previous Merlin heads (also home ported) flowed 184 cfm / 143 cfm @ 0,5" lift.


Blown v8
Bryan Phipps

(70 posts)

Registered:
03/10/2013 04:52PM

Main British Car:


Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: Blown v8
Date: August 25, 2022 03:27PM

I would take the flow bench graph posted above with a pinch of salt !
As Lloyd are the “makers and suppliers” of the wildcat heads, and with my own experience with them,
A little biased, is an understatement


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 26, 2022 10:32AM

If someone were to find and post Dan's TA flow bench results that should be illuminating.

Jim


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(80 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: August 26, 2022 12:14PM

Bryan,

I agree with your assessment. Also, these flow numbers are at 25" CFM, whereas all the other flow tests I've seen are at 10.

This is what I think might be possible on the intake side at .5" lift:

Wildcat Standard Ported: 150 CFM (1.94-inch intakes and 1.60 exhausts)
TA Performance Unported: 165 CFM (*up to* 2.02-inch intakes and 1.60-inch exhausts)
300 heavily ported with oversize valves: 206 CFM (1.80-inch intakes and 1.425-inch exhausts)--data from Hot Rod article

I point out the numbers for the 300 heads as it *may* be possible the 300 heads are the best bargain around. The other heads are $3,000-5,000 for a pair (ACR says they don't sell the bare heads anymore). It's possible that a good $1,000 porting job and a little bit on the valve side might give similar performance to the Wildcat and TA heads, even if you discount the Hot Rod article numbers.

Now if I could find someone to give me a quote on heat treating the 300 heads (could do them myself, but it makes me a bit nervous).


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: TA Rover Heads
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 26, 2022 01:33PM

Why do you need to heat treat the 300 heads?

Jim
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