Engine and Transmission Tech

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 18, 2023 03:54PM

So I got a marketing email the other day that had a picture of a sheet metal, tab-and-slot assembled mockup block (it was for an LS - they get all the love these days). I figured I've got most of the RV8 drawn, I bet I can pull shapes from my drawing and get one made for my project.

[www.summitracing.com]
block.jpg

I've printed outlines of the individual panels so I can check them against my block, and then I'll add the detailing such as the tabs and slots.

Just for a reality check, I uploaded files of all the pieces to a water jet place, and the quote in .030 steel is about $165, shipped. It'll go up a little as more detail is added, but not much.

Any interest, once I get it all dialed in? Features you'd add, or delete? The Summit ones have brake-bent stiffening edges for some of the longitudinal parts, for instance. Adding the bends would add a little to the price.

I no longer have a 300 block, so I can't check its fit - but I recall the only significant difference was bell housing pattern and deck height?

Not looking to charge anything -I'd just make the cut files available to whoever wants them so you can get your own parts cut. But if there's interest I can maybe move faster!


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4517 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 19, 2023 08:14AM

If you don't plan to bolt anything to it, why not make it with foam core board?


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(252 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: May 19, 2023 09:17AM

I would be interested in a 300 version. I do also wonder about the same thing Carl mentioned--is there a good reason to make it from steel?


joe_padavano
Joseph Padavano
Northern Virginia
(157 posts)

Registered:
02/15/2010 03:49PM

Main British Car:
1962 F-85 Deluxe wagon 215 Olds

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: joe_padavano
Date: May 19, 2023 09:38AM

The bare aluminum block probably weighs no more than a plastic or sheet metal mockup. I'm guessing there isn't much of a market for this product.


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(252 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: May 19, 2023 10:38AM

Joe, that may be true for the Rover or Buick 215 V8s, but the 300 block is cast iron, so I don't want to be moving that around too many times.


Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 19, 2023 11:11AM

The reason for steel, as the Summit ad mentions, is to allow welding and other "rough" fabrication methods.

Motor mounts and headers could be made directly from the buck.

Firewall or frame mods that involve hammers, plasma cutters, a sawzall, and zip disk would be easier with something that can be placed and removed with one hand. The weight in .030 steel of the long block model I have now would be 8.5#.

The drawing files can be pdf and eps, for someone to print and spray mount to cardboard or foam, or send to a water jet if steel would work for your build.

Eric, for the 300 I'd be happy to do a version that pushes the heads out to accommodate the 9.543 deck height, versus Rover's 8.960. You'd have to check your own motor mount hole spacing though (and the bell housing...).


After printing copies of the front, bell, and skirts, checking hole alignment and sizing, I made some adjustments, added tabs and slots, and checked pricing on the updated shapes. Since there's some more complexity and fewer parts can be duplicated for L/R, the price has gone up to $212 at the water jet site I've used.
BLOCK2.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2023 11:45AM by Roverbeam.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6470 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 19, 2023 05:20PM

The 300 uses the same motor mount bosses and the same spacing. I think the bell shares 2 common bolts and the dowel pins. Also has the front and rear lifter valley wall coming up to the intake manifold and straight across.

Jim



Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 19, 2023 06:08PM

Thanks Jim.

I've put pdf's and eps files in a Dropbox folder that I use for engine stuff to share:
[www.dropbox.com]

The only difference between the drawings for the RV8 and the 300 are the shapes of the end walls (since I don't have bell info for the 300).

If you want a steel mock up, upload the eps files from either the RV8 or 300 folder to a water jet company and specify .030 steel for the material.

If you print the pdf's, they're set up for 36"x24" paper, and from Acrobat the Page Scaling needs to be set to "Actual Size", using a printer that allows this page size. Places like FedEx/Kinkos used to have large format printers available, or if you have trouble let me know and I can ship paper copies.

Edit after oil pan discussion going into page 2:
The above files include an oil pan template patterned off of a GEMS 4.0/4.6 engine (and AREís dry sump pan). I believe it is also the same pattern used for earlier 215ís and 3.5ís. The Bosch engines, and the 300, each use a different pan pattern, so youíd need to drill your own holes based on your own panís bolt holes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2023 08:01AM by Roverbeam.


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(252 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: May 19, 2023 06:24PM

Chad, thanks--this is great. If I want the 300 version, how do I pay you for it?


Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 20, 2023 08:30AM

No money for me, unless itís to cover shipping paper copies.

Download the eps (Adobe Illustrator) files in the ď300 Mock Block eps filesĒ folder, then go to a water jet outfit. I used SendCutSend to gather pricing since their site is so easy to use.

Let me know if any steps trip you up.


Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 20, 2023 10:08AM

image0.jpeg
I do still have a 300 oil pan, and recalled they have a slightly different pattern. Several homes still line up, a few wonít.


Airwreckc
Eric Cumming
RTP, North Carolina
(252 posts)

Registered:
05/28/2020 10:10AM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Airwreckc
Date: May 22, 2023 09:36AM

Thanks Chad, I will give it a try. I really appreciate it.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4517 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 22, 2023 09:45AM

That 300 pan looks identical to my 215 oil pan.


Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 22, 2023 03:22PM

I donít know what models each of the oil pan patterns goes with. The jogged-over side was on the 300 when it came to me, but if thatís a 215 pan thatís interesting.

Thereís a pattern out there that is mostly a rectangle, with one diagonal corner - P6 or some such.

I think all the 3.5, 4.0, & 4.6 Rover engines fit the pattern I used. Iím not a British V8 historian though!


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4517 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 22, 2023 09:36PM

No, that is a 300 oil pan. Mine does not have that offset on the right side. The other one looks like a Rover 3.9/4.2 oil pan.



Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 23, 2023 07:52AM

The pan with the baffle was on a 4.0


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4517 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 23, 2023 09:34AM

Had it been converted back to a distributor driven oil pump?

The 4.0/4.6 uses a crank driven oil pump. Therefore, the pickup is mounted in the front of the sump. This is the oil pan that is fitted to them.
Rover 4.0 oil pan.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2023 09:35AM by MGBV8.


Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 24, 2023 02:06PM

Iíve started with a very stock mid-90ís 4.0 with crank/gerotor oil pump and no dizzy conversion. Iíve looked at the bolt pattern underneath and thereís no way that oil pan would fit my engine. Iíve got the old pickup tube in a bin - Iíll see where it joins the front cover. Iím all curious now!

This site seems to indicate just the 4.6ís used that clipped-corner pan shape?:
[www.crank-scrapers.com]


Roverbeam
Chad McNeely
N.E. MO
(77 posts)

Registered:
06/09/2021 06:03PM

Main British Car:
Alpine S4 Rover 4.0

Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: Roverbeam
Date: May 24, 2023 05:09PM

Flipped the block and found the pickup tube. Joins the block mid-side.
image0.jpeg


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4517 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: 'Summit' style mock up block?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 24, 2023 09:14PM

I have one of his crank scrapers for my 3.9 from back in his early days. His website is not real clear (to me, anyway).

Seems to depend on the year of the 4.0. I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that all of the crank driven oil pumps used the front pickup location. It gets a bit murky as they switched over to the 4.0 & 4.6.


[www.roverlandparts.com]
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