Engine and Transmission Tech
tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Goofing around with the Desktop Dyno.300 with 350 crank, TA heads and Crower 50233 cam. 10.5 compression. Here is the interesting part. Input Chevy Edelbrock Performer RPM vs Edelbrock Victor Jr intakes. Check out the graph:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2024 07:50PM by mgb260. |
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
This graph with the Torquer II would be more like the new Willpower intake compared to a good dual plane:
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Now I've put in LT4 "HOT" cam specs:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2024 01:51AM by mgb260. |
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BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6508 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Interesting Jim. Can you extend the 50233 graph up to see where it peaks out?
Since I have essentially the LT1 Hot grind the last one is relevant but with around 4-5psi of boost it will be extended. Jim |
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MGBV8 Carl Floyd Kingsport, TN (4562 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 11:32PM Main British Car: 1979 MGB Buick 215 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
The first graph shows why I chose a Victor Jr 30 years ago when rebuilding the 350 in my Camaro. Works better on the street than most would give it credit for.
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Airwreckc Eric Cumming RTP, North Carolina (253 posts) Registered: 05/28/2020 10:10AM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Jim, those are really interesting results. What options do you have for intake and exhaust? For instance, is there an option for the Rover EFI or some sort of throttle body sizing? And I wonder about different exhaust manifold options--for instance, I've heard that the original 300 exhaust manifolds actually flow pretty well.
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Jim B I can extend the graph but it drops off at 6000RPM. That cam is retarded 4 degrees to move power band up. Eric, I can input thousands of variables but it takes time. I use open headers, no accessories and electric water pump for flywheel HP & TQ. Deduct about 20% for rear wheel numbers. I have access to real dyno numbers and specs of different intakes, cams, heads etc.
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Jim B, 50233 drop off at 6000RPM. I'll work on Eric's Fuel injection and closed exhaust next.
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Eric, Willpower type intake with throttlebody, port fuel injection. 50233 cam. 300 exhaust manifolds, dual exhaust 2.5 pipes with H pipe. Dynomax mufflers. The chart above has same specs except 650 double pumper carb and open headers.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2024 11:34AM by mgb260. |
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Airwreckc Eric Cumming RTP, North Carolina (253 posts) Registered: 05/28/2020 10:10AM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
That's great Jim, thanks. As an aside, I am building a custom intake plenum with 350 CI of capacity (about 50% larger than the standard Rover plenum) for the Rover EFI system and was thinking of using a larger 75mm throttle body than the standard Rover 65mm. I'm thinking that I might limit my CR to 10 :1 and likely go with a 50232 or 50233 cam (not sure yet). And regarding the exhaust manifolds--trying to decide how much I get (or give up) by using tube headers (not block huggers) vs. the original cast iron (which are *free*) and a lot quieter--and I've read aren't much different in weight than the tube headers.
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Airwreckc Eric Cumming RTP, North Carolina (253 posts) Registered: 05/28/2020 10:10AM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
And thanks for letting me know about Brian's intake--yet another option to consider :)
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
The Buick 300 manifolds probably flow about the same as the shorty headers. The open long tube headers don't gain a lot with no backpressure except noise. A good free flowing exhaust with long tube headers will gain more. I'll change to a sheetmetal intake with
75mm throttlebody. |
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Not much difference, A little more power at peak. Both types of throttlebodies can flow 1000cfm.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2024 12:01PM by mgb260. |
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Airwreckc Eric Cumming RTP, North Carolina (253 posts) Registered: 05/28/2020 10:10AM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Interesting how similar the numbers are (and how good they all are). This looks like nearly exactly the result I was shooting for. Thanks for putting these together.
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Eric, Results on Desktop Dyno's are very optimistic. This program starts with a stock baseline and I add improvements. I can set elevation, temperature, and humidity.There is a huge database library of real results. I haven't messed with the program for a couple years and started playing with it and it becomes addictive. I figured out how to print to PDF and convert to jpg for the graphs on my laptop. .Bottom box colors are the single plane. you can hover with the mouse and it reads actual numbers ,I could have typed in the peak numbers but I was lazy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2024 01:46PM by mgb260. |
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Airwreckc Eric Cumming RTP, North Carolina (253 posts) Registered: 05/28/2020 10:10AM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Jim, good to know. However, it does give me a better picture that the wild guessing I've been doing so far. I'd be interested in knowing what variables you've used so far. If you want some more fun, I might change a few :)
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
I can change everything from mild to wild. Turbo's, Superchargers, port size, runner length. I have the experienced user, Pro edition.
I forgot to mention I used 1.9 IN and 1.6 EX valve size. 1.6 rocker ratio. I used Chevy examples on the intakes because few HP intakes are available for the 300. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2024 02:01PM by mgb260. |
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mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
On the above all were very similar and the changes were intake, cam and exhaust. I have also done Ford V6 and V8, Buick 215/Rover V8 and Buick and Chevy V6.
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Airwreckc Eric Cumming RTP, North Carolina (253 posts) Registered: 05/28/2020 10:10AM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT (working on a Sebring project) Buick 300-4 V8 |
Re: Single plane vs Dual plane 300 stroker with TA heads.
Jim, nice--good to know. Thanks.
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