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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Clutch question
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: July 16, 2009 05:34PM

Search is underway for a clutch/ flywheel for the Rover engine and after talking to Mark at D&D I have some questions. Mark has one that is machined to accept the clutch kit he sells, but the flywheel (lightened I think) and clutch kit are a bit on the higher price side than one I found on TSI Automotive imports website, they have a lightened flywheel and a performance clutch kit that would come out about a hundred bucks cheaper. Mark mentioned that if I am using the T5 I need to have a bit machined off the crankshaft or use the shim he sells, the guy at TSI Automotive knew the flywheel would work and said I would use a stock GM clutch but he didn't know if it would need machined. I emailed him back because he was asking what bellhousing I was going to use and all I know is Kurt said it was the coveted one that allows the T5 to bolt right to the engine. I would like to save a couple of bucks if possible but only as long as it works. What do you guys do that run the Rover and the T5? Thanks!!!

(See..... I told you guys I would be full of questions)


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Clutch question
Posted by: roverman
Date: July 16, 2009 07:38PM

Michelle, What size Rover? What input dia. and spline? I think I would also shop Kennedy Engineering Products in Palmdale, CA. , "Hobart" has been building flywheels and cluthes for these motors-forever. Unless your going racing, I wouldn't fret too much standard flywheel weight. Why?, on smaller engine, the heavier flywheel is "stored energy", helps maintain rpm. during gear changing and some turns. Diaphram design clutch should work best. Good luck, roverman.


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Clutch question
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: July 16, 2009 08:22PM

It is a 3.5 Rover and I am just going for a driver nothing crazy. But I don't know the input and spline. I believe that was the clutch that D&D sells, but it only goes with their flywheel.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4576 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Clutch question
Posted by: Moderator
Date: July 16, 2009 08:34PM

It sounds like Kurt sold you an original Buick bellhousing, which came in two versions. The "3-speed" version would have an inconvenient bolt pattern. The "4-speed" version is great because a Borg-Warner T5 5-speed will bolt right to it. (It would also work nicely with a Tremec or with the older Borg Warner T50 5-speed.) It's a nice part. I've only heard of one person breaking it, and he was drag racing. (Carl!)

Have you bought your transmission already? I'm guessing you're probably using a T5 with 1 1/8" by 26-spline input shaft. That's what V8 Camaro's had.

If that's right, Mark at D&D can sell you a 10.4" Camaro-spec pressure plate and clutch. The Camaro pressure plate is diaphragm-type, and it offers significantly lower pedal pressure than the old 3-finger pressure plate that came on an old Buick. An old Buick flywheel weighs a ton - about 33.2# for the version I originally used and a lot of that weight is in a heavy ring outboard of the pressure plate. That adds so much rotating inertia that I'd strongly recommend NOT using it. Mark's flywheel isn't bargain priced and isn't especially lightweight, but IMHO it's a better solution than the very high inertia Buick flywheel and three-finger pressure plate.

Neither D&D nor TSI support the operating budget of this website... Shame on them! However, I've bought stuff from D&D (sometimes with a discount) and I can strongly recommend them for supremely knowledgeable advice.

Are you ready to think about slave cylinders yet? That's a whole 'nother can of worms.

There are a lot of photos of the various parts spread over this website. Surf around in the article archive.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4511 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Clutch question
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 16, 2009 11:28PM

Buy the TSI flywheel from Ted, get a pilot bearing that works with your Rover 3.5 & T -5. Clutch-wise you need a 26 spline CLUTCH plate like Curtis says. The pressure plate can be larger. A diaphragm clutch will have less pedal pressure.


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Clutch question
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: July 17, 2009 08:47PM

I believe it is the original Buick bellhousing for the 4 speed, Kurt said it would bolt up without any problems. I also got the t5 from him, and using the W/C # I found it on the internet to be from the v8 camaro late '80's model. Carl, if I get the flywheel from Ted, is it the lightened version or the normal one? I asked him if I were to use his lightened set up and clutch kit if I needed to have the crankshaft shortened the 3/10" that Mark from D&D mentioned. But Ted said he had not heard of the need to do that from anyone he had sold to, so now I am really confused. Good thing next week is vacation.


And Curtis, I hadn't gotten to the slave cylinder yet, I really need to bug Bernie a bit too.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Clutch question
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: July 17, 2009 11:53PM

I have not heard of the need to shorten the crank to use a t5. I'm not sure why you would need to. I'm using a T5 with the old 4-speed bellhousing. Fits perfectly. I also measured the input shaft length and compared it to the Saginaw I was using. It's the same length. Huh... Is it the input shaft that needs to be shorter on a rover crank? I'm using a 300 crank...

Keep us posted, Michelle.



MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4511 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Clutch question
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 18, 2009 12:47AM

Michelle,

What year is your 3.5? I don't think it will be an issue with a 3.5. I have 2 3.9s that have to have the tail end of the crank cut down about .3". It's not that big of a deal, though.

I think Ted only sells the lighter flywheel. but ask him when you order it.


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Clutch question
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: July 18, 2009 09:37AM

I believe it is from an '88 Carl. Mark said if you are using a Rover 5 speed then you have no issues but if you have a Buick bellhousing along with the t5 then you have a difference of 3/10" clearance with the input shaft. I know Bernie mentioned to me to make sure an get the shim that D&D makes, but since the engine had to be bored Mark said it would much easier to just get it machined off at the shop. I thought Bernie said you could put everything together but it could lead to a failure down the road or a problem at least.


Bruce Mills
Bruce Mills
Vancouver Canada
(71 posts)

Registered:
11/28/2007 09:31PM

Main British Car:
1974.5 MGB Roadster 3.5 Rover

authors avatar
Re: Clutch question
Posted by: Bruce Mills
Date: July 18, 2009 01:50PM

3.5 with 88 Camero T5 74.5 MGB Roadster
I bought all my tranny stuff (including hydraulic throw out bearing) from D&D.
When I put it all together I cracked one of the bell housing ears (since welded up) because the input shaft was too long.
I solved the problem for many years by using washers to space the bell housing off the tranny by about 5/16”
Last winter because the motor was out of the car to repaint the engine bay I made up a solid aluminum plate to fit between the tranny and bell housing.
Another option is to cut off the end of the input shaft

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2009 01:51PM by Bruce Mills.


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Clutch question
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: July 18, 2009 10:31PM

I am thinking I can use the set up from TSI, save a hundred or so bucks and do the modification to the crankshaft while it is at the machine shop. Mark said he could explain the process to the shop for me. So I think I will go that route, then figure out the slave cylinder. Is there a way to use the same master? I thought I read that somewhere.

Bruce,

I am heading to Canada tomorrow, so pack up the valuables :). Going to Niagra first then up to Toronto.


Bruce Mills
Bruce Mills
Vancouver Canada
(71 posts)

Registered:
11/28/2007 09:31PM

Main British Car:
1974.5 MGB Roadster 3.5 Rover

authors avatar
Re: Clutch question
Posted by: Bruce Mills
Date: July 19, 2009 11:35AM

Michelle

You'll like Niagara. And Toronto is interesting as well as far as a big city goes.

I am way over on the West coast in a small coastal town N-W of Vancouver.

Wednesday I am heading off for a 2 week trip though the states. First down through Washington to California, Ventura County for a car show. Recently discovered an old friend living in Ventura County (got to love the internet) who is heavily into British cars in his area.
Over to Vegas to see another old friend (that is going to be a very warm drive) and then to Utah to check out Bryce Canyon, Zion National Park and Monument Valley.
Heading back north through Wyoming, Montana and Yellowstone National Park up through Idaho and back into Canada and drive across the Southern part of British Columbia.

These cars are a blast to drive. They are quick nimble and definitely an obsession.
P.S. I used the original Master Clutch Cylinder, just rebuilt it.
IMG_0885a.jpg
IMG_0917a.jpg



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2009 04:10PM by Bruce Mills.


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