Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2003 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 24, 2011 12:48AM

Rob, The fluid can't get past the crush washers on both sides. The hole would be just big enough for the fitting to go through. You would have to make sure it is flat and clean where the crush washers seat. I would probably use 2 nuts as jam nuts on each side as they are thin. Would work as locknuts also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2011 12:49AM by mgb260.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 24, 2011 01:00AM

I don't know about that Jim. May work, but normally crush washers are sandwiched between a flanges that isolate the threads. Like on a brake caliper, the crush washers seal on the machined surface of the caliper & the banjo & then the other side of the banjo & the banjo bolt head -- so any fluid that gets past the threads is trapped btwn the threads & the inside edge of the washers. Seems like with nuts, a fluid can still seep past them -- between the threads & the edge of the crush washer. May not be a problem since the reservoirs aren't under pressure, but I'd want to test it out first.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2003 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 24, 2011 01:04AM

I see what you are saying now but, pipe thread has a slight taper plus a little sealant for insurance. I'm after a more vintage look than the AN fittings. I'm thinking about 2 large cans for brakes and 1 small one for the clutch. Painted Hammerite dark gray with original style decals and blue hoses. Girling decals and lid diaphrams available from Moss. I am using 2 separate masters with balance bar similar to this, only remote reservoirs:
Master_Cylinders.jpg
Reservoirs_009.jpg



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2011 01:36AM by mgb260.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: February 24, 2011 12:57PM

Why not assemble per Jims idea but leave out the washers, then just solder the whole thing together to seal it?
Or just solder on the lower nut to the fitting then the washer would seal.

Cheers
Fred


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 24, 2011 01:11PM

That's a great idea Fred. Would work for a plastic reservoir too if you needed to change the nipple size to fit a different MC which could come in handy!


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 25, 2011 06:04PM

Ok, I'm making progress... not good progress, but progress!

Got the Isuzu MC in the mail today -- and the reservoir is perfect! It has plenty of room & looks like it was made to go there. And, it fits on a Mitsubishi MC I have too.

Bad news is I didn't notice the output for the front on both of them is on the same side as the clutch MC & land right where the reservoir on the clutch MC is -- there's maybe a tight 1/2" between the brake MC front output & the clutch MC -- I don't even think there's enough room to do a banjo fitting there (even if I could find a metric banjo bolt this weekend).

I do have another clutch MC that looks like it will probably clear (a Tilton 75 series) -- but it's a 1" instead of 3/4. Clutch slave is a 3/4 unit from a Toyota truck. What are your thoughts about using the 3/4" clutch master with the 1" slave? I haven't driven it enough to know for sure, but the first impression was it was a bit hard -- especially toward the end of the travel. As long as it won't over extend the slave I should be able to use it & if it's too soft trade out the Tilton, right?

What-da-ya-think?


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 25, 2011 06:47PM

Just read up on clutch hydraulics -- bigger MC = more pedal effort, not less so that'd be going the wrong way. Looks like I need to find a MC that'll take the Isuzu reservoir but has the ports on the other side. I think I'm going to go ahead & set up a remote reservoir solution & find a MC that'll work later.



mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2003 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 25, 2011 07:41PM

Rob, Some masters I looked at on RockAuto and EBay had the Metric banjo fittings, looked pretty compact. I think the Isuzu Impulse ( page 3 of this thread)had the fittings on the other side. Maybe World Parts will trade the Trooper for the Impulse.The Isuzu 15/16" was used on Diesel Troopers 85-86 according to RockAuto. Centric specs show fittings on wrong side also. Good news on the reservoir. Stock photo10mm banjo fittings pic:
!CEk6irw!mk~$(KGrHqN,!lUE1F0mJsZzBNSVQeDsNQ~~0_1.jpg



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2011 09:37PM by mgb260.


Bill Young
Bill Young
Kansas City, MO
(1337 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 09:23AM

Main British Car:
'73 MG Midget V6 , '59 MGA I6 2.8 GM, 4.0 Jeep

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: Bill Young
Date: February 27, 2011 11:13PM

Rob, I'm getting in a bit late on this topic, but have you looked at the Wilwood Remote combination master cylinder? Very small and has a very low top mount for the filler. Using a remote resevoir would clear your hood easily. I wound up using a larger model but used a resevoir from a Nissan if I remember correctly that I found in the salvage yard because it had a much lower profile tube mount. Worked for my clutch when the Wilwood resevoir wouldn't clear the fender. [www.wilwood.com] Remote Combination Master Cylinder
I used a 3/4" bore cylinder on my car, that usually matches up well with stock sized calipers, but you could move up to a 13/16" or a 7/8" if you need more volume.
Brakes small 2.jpg
remote resevoir.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 08:26AM by Bill Young.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: March 02, 2011 01:36PM

Thanks Bill -- I think I have this licked (thanks to all the help & encouragement!). No pics, but my older son & I bonded @ the local pick-a-part this past weekend. We found a few 15/16 masters with the right spacing on their inlets for the Isuzu master cylinder reservoir and with the output ports on the "right" side ("right as in correct for my purposes -- opposite side from the clutch master when installed in the MG pedal box). The one I have initially installed came from a '96 Mazda Protoge. So far looks like it'll work -- have it cleaned, bench bled, & installed -- just need to bleed the brakes & test it out. The gromets are, in reality, a little too small for the Isuzu MC to seat all the way down. It's seating far enough to make a good seal but there's still about 1/8" between the top of the grommet & the bottom of the reservoir -- works but not as tightly seated as it should be & I don't like it because I'm concerned it may vibrate & loosen over time. For now, I zip tied the reservoir down to the MC & that should be good enough to confirm the 15/16 size.

Assuming the size is good, I also grabbed a 15/16 MC from a '89 Camry. Also has the right inlet spacing & has the right size grommets. It also has a triangular shaped flange that I think will work a little better than the Protoge one. I should have installed it first, but I didn't notice the difference in grommet size till I'd already modified/installed the Protoge one.

In addition, Graham identified a 15/16 MC from a '80 Toyota Pickup, 1 Ton that looks promising too -- it has a round reservoir for the front inlet & that reservoir serves as a remote to the back port. Next time I'm at the pick-a-part I'm going to check that one out to see if it's short enough & if the reservoir is low enough. If so, that would make the best option since it wouldn't require mixing/matching parts from multiple MC's.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2003 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: March 02, 2011 04:43PM

Wow, You've been busy!


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: March 02, 2011 11:31PM

Bled the brakes this evening -- very firm pedal... If I get home from work early enought tomorrow I'll be able to try it out.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2003 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: March 03, 2011 12:33AM

Rob, think you'll like it! 15/16" should be just right. Just curious, do you have braided stainless flex lines? They will take up some pedal travel also.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: March 03, 2011 09:04AM

Yes, braided flex lines.


kstevusa
kelly stevenson
Southern Middle Tennessee
(931 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 09:37AM

Main British Car:
2003 Jaguar XK8 Coupe 4.2L DOHC/ VVT / 6sp. AT

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: kstevusa
Date: March 04, 2011 07:48AM

Rob, Great progress! look forward to seeing the car and you in little over 2 months.
SAFETY FASTER!



rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2632 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: March 06, 2011 10:21PM

Test drove the car again today -- brakes feel good with the 15/16" master. What I have installed is '96 Mazda Protoge with the Isuzu Trooper reservoir. As noted above, the Protoge gromets aren't really the right size but I also have a master from an '89 Toyota Camry which is also 15/16 & has the right inlet spacing & gromet size to accept the Isuzu reservoir so I'll likely switch to it. But first, I have a few things to sort out from the test drive...

Shifter lever was keeping me from getting 1st/3rd/5th fully engaged. So stayed in 2nd the whole time. Fixed that this evening.
Neither speedo or tach are working; will need to check that out.
Car overheated... I'm guessing this had something to do with it... No idea how I missed that?!?!?
Fan Goof.jpg
But, temp gauge worked (silver lining).

Should be able to fix the fan tonight or sometime this week so I can make sure that's all it was.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2003 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: March 06, 2011 10:50PM

Rob, Congratulations on the brakes, I knew you'd get it figured out.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: March 08, 2011 02:13AM

Pretty cool Rob. ( no pun intended)

Don't sweat the fan thing too much.
When I worked for Volkswagen back in the 80's we had a very quiet campaign to reverse the wiring for the rad fan on hundreds of 2nd gen Sciroccos.
So stuff happens.
Just why does it always happen to us?

Cheers
Fred


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3003 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: roverman
Date: March 08, 2011 08:08PM

Rob, So you'd rather have it over heat in reverse ? Good work, cheers, roverman.
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