Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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socorob
Robbie
La
(173 posts)

Registered:
09/17/2009 04:42PM

Main British Car:
1963 Sunbeam Alpine Series 2 Ford 2.8 V6

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: socorob
Date: February 15, 2011 08:40AM

Can you post a photo of the end where the clevis goes in. Does that piece in the Photo come out and does it have a snap ring to hold a normal push rod in or did Honda use a different setup?


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 15, 2011 11:49AM

Quote: "How long is it?"
-- Measured a couple of days ago -- was shorter than stock MC -- about 5 3/4" if I recall.

Quote: "Does that piece in the Photo come out and does it have a snap ring to hold a normal push rod in or did Honda use a different setup?"
-- Don't know what Honda used, just have the MC. Does have a snap ring that holds the tube extension you see in. That tube acts like a push rod. I haven't taken it apart yet to see whether it makes sense to try & use a regular push rod in place of the tube or maybe use a push rod inserted into the tube... will be spending some time on that this evening I hope. Will post photos once I figure it out & set it up.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 15, 2011 12:47PM

Probably just insert the pushrod in the tube. Rob is trailblazing this one. Looks very promising so far. I wonder if the Honda reservoir is forward enough (for the backward mount early pedal box)or the Wilwood remote reservoir can be made to fit. These masters can be found cheaper than the stock ones and availability is better also. May become the master cylinder of choice in conversions with larger brakes.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 09:43PM by mgb260.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 15, 2011 10:06PM

Well, push rod on this one probably doesn't matter unless there's a short reservoir. Take a look @ the comparison...
2011-02-15 Brake Master measurements (3).JPG
2011-02-15 Brake Master measurements (5).JPG

Height of the reservoir can go about 4.25" from the side of the box where I'm measuring. This one is almost 2" too tall too...
2011-02-15 Brake Master measurements (6).JPG

The hole where the reservoir connects measures 1 11/16 (it's probably a metric size but it's very close to that). I have a Tilton 75 & the reservoirs for it have a smaller diameter hole. Not sure what size the Wilwood MC's use.

I think I'm going to punt on this one & search around to see if I can find a version of the Honda Civic one that Jim posted earleir but in 15/16 or 1". Seems like most of these MC's are available in a few different diameters so may get lucky.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 10:08PM by rficalora.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 15, 2011 10:15PM

Rob, That is what I was worried about, I have another idea. I wonder if you can look at the clutch master reservoirs on the Honda's in the wrecking yard-they are remote and maybe the part that fits on the clutch master will fit on the brake master. Scratch the clutch master idea, I saw a picture and it uses a small threaded fitting. That gives me another idea- how about threading the part the reservoir goes on with pipe thread and using a reducer bushing with a small nipple to run hose to remote reservoir.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 10:38PM by mgb260.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 15, 2011 11:27PM

1998 Chevy Tracker ABS is 15/16" and very short with reservoir forward.
CE130_48012.jpg


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

deleted
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 15, 2011 11:27PM

deleted



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 11:35PM by mgb260.



rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 15, 2011 11:28PM

Quote: how about threading the part the reservoir goes on with pipe thread and using a reducer bushing with a small nipple to run hose to remote reservoir

That's an interesting idea. I don't really want to do a remote reservoir, but seems like I should be able to use that idea to do a reducer that would let me use the Tilton reservoir. Any ideas on how to do that w/o a lathe? I might get lucky & find a reducer that'll fit, but with the odd ~1 11/16" size, that's unlikely.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: deleted
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 15, 2011 11:35PM

1 5/8" pipe threading die would probably work. Female side to master, male fitting slightly larger than Tilton size with threads sanded off. Custom, but should work. Is the Tilton reservoir shorter? It still might be back too far. EDIT: Pipe thread jumps from 1 1/2" to 2" so won't work.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 02:43AM by mgb260.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 15, 2011 11:36PM

That Tracker one looks interesting. I've been searching RockAuto & found a couple of others that might work too. Most promising is this one if the reservoir will flip around...

2004 FORD ESCAPE 3.0L, 1" bore
2004 Ford Escape 3.0L.jpg


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 15, 2011 11:40PM

Jim, if I can do a reducer, I think the Tilton 75 reservoir might work; would need to do some measurements. It would basically go straight up from the hole in the MC...
1 Tilton 75.jpg


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: deleted
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 15, 2011 11:44PM

I think you can make the Honda one work. I have seen pipe reducers that bell up to smaller sizes.Though the height would go up also. There are a lot of possibilities, you may have to do some junkyard shopping. The side to side mounting might be tight to the clutch cylinder and might have to be ground down on that side.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 16, 2011 01:27AM

1998-2005 VW Beetle,Golf,Jetta 15/16" Non ESP (ABS). 12MM x 1.0 fittings.
getimage 2000 VW Jetta V6 15 16.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 02:57AM by mgb260.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 16, 2011 08:20AM

I saw that same one -- 2002 (and probably other years) Beetle. I haven't looked at the pedal box yet to see if a horizontal flange will work. This would be a lot easier if it was before paint.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 16, 2011 12:50PM

Actually the VW mounting is angled and close to the master and should fit. Another idea for the Honda reservoir, angled on Isuzu Trooper,Amiga,Rodeo,93-97 Nissan Altima and 85-90 Mitsubishi clutch masters. Would have to be turned. I know you don't want remote but mid 80's Nissan have this fitting also.
!BhM1V2QBWk~$(KGrHqUH-CkEsMRCS1FzBLIEDuE6Kw~~_12.jpg
M0500.jpg
93-97 Nissan Altima clutch.jpg
85-90 Mitsubishi  clutch.jpg



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 03:52PM by mgb260.



mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 16, 2011 01:16PM

Picture of VW mounting flange:
getimage VW mount.jpg


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 16, 2011 08:58PM

Another idea to reduce the Honda down, press a piece of DOM tubing inside, notched for divider?


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 16, 2011 11:47PM

The honda one only came in 7/8 -- I'm still holding out for a 15/16.

I played with the Acura one I'd bought; no way it's going to fit unless I break down & go w/a remote reservoir. Any ideas on what to use for a cap on the MC side? Would need to put two nipples in it to feed the front/back sections of the MC since it has the divider in the hole.

I also found a MC that I'm pretty sure would work from an Isuzu Trooper. Comes in 7/8 & 15/16" versions & an eBay seller measured his for me (7/8 version). Haven't found anyone who sells the 15/16" version -- even the Isuzu dealer in town (only one left in Hou) says they can't get it?? Are they going out of business?
1986 Isuzu Trooper.jpg

Going to see what I can find in the way of reservoirs in the VW line but fastest answer sounds like figuring out a way to remote feed the Acura one I have -- plus that'd be a way to test a 15/16" before spending any more money on this. So that's probaby where I need to keep my attn.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2013 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: February 17, 2011 12:14AM

Rob, You can check out some of the clutch masters for remote cap. You would only need one nipple if you could press a notched pipe(for divider) sticking up about 1" for a smaller diameter. Then maybe those angled clutch ones I show above might even fit. What's the I.D. on the Acura opening for the reservoir? Go on Ebay Motors; parts and accessories, type in Ford, Dodge, Nissan etc. clutch master cylinder,shows hundreds. Lots are remote or have small or angled reservoirs.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2011 01:01AM by mgb260.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2637 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: February 17, 2011 09:21AM

I'll have to do some looking for a remote cap that'll fit. At almost 1 3/4", the opening is big & there is only about 1/2" above the Acura MC opening & the firewall overhang so not really room for a reducer. I'll probably have to look @ truck clutch masters to find a cap.
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