Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3509 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: November 23, 2016 11:24AM

Since this is THE main thread on EPS/EPAS, I am cross-posting this from the Triumph section thread.
Quote:
Pick your donor car EPS very carefully. Why buy a Bruno box if it's a set it & forget it situation. Fail Safe mode may be all we need for our LBC.
The Bruno controller is needed for the Saturn Vue, Chevrolet Equinox, etc. do NOT have a factory Fail Safe mode built-in in case it is disconnected from the original vehicle's CAN bus system. Fred Key put an oscilloscope on a Bruno & found out that is about all it does, give the Saturn Vue a fail safe mode (with a potentiometer).

According to this tutorial linked below, a Japanese EPS can be used in Fail Safe mode without the need of a Bruno Box & its variable assist.

The Saturn Vue steering does not self-center well (Mike Moor has discovered this, as well). The author suggests that a Toyota Prius electric steering ECU could be used on the Vue to correct this, as they have the same torque sensor.

[www.forabodiesonly.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2016 12:16PM by MGBV8.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

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Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 24, 2016 09:52PM

Dan and I looked up the weights of the Corolla and Prius. About 2500 and 2800 lbs.

Jim


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2917 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 01, 2016 05:45PM

Ok, so what would be the EPS of choice, for a heavier car, say 3,600 lbs ? Thanks, art.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 02, 2016 11:34AM

Maybe the Equinox?

The earlier MGB (CB) steering rack has 2.9 turns L-L so for a 2200lb car that'd give us a steering force factor of about 755 which would vary depending on the tires and any suspension mods. The RB MGB with a 3.5 ratio and about 200 lbs more weight comes to 685. The MG-RM at 2700 lbs would be 931. Wider tires will increase this number.

The '05 Corolla at 2500 lbs has 3.4 turns and works out to a factor of 735, a pretty good match for the 2200 lb (CB) MGB. Possibly a good choice for almost any MGB.

Specs for the Prius are all over the place, anywhere from 2.28 to 4 turns depending on the source, and apparently the tire size. You'll just have to check the individual car. If it is 2.28 (15" wheels) the number is 1,228. If 3.02 (16" wheels) the number is 927. Both those specs are from a Toyota publication. Whether they both use the same EPS unit is an unknown, but my guess would be that they do not.

Since we are looking for best match in Limp mode, the Corolla looks like a good bet for most MGBs, and the 16" Prius for most more extreme MGBs. The 15" Prius would likely give very light steering, but might be good for a car of about 2700 lbs with unusually wide tires.

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 01:14PM by BlownMGB-V8.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3509 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: March 21, 2017 11:16AM

From Tony Gentile's thread: List of EPS Units

Quote:
Below is the list of cars that have Fail-Safe Electric Power Steering columns, this means that Only 3 wire connection. Ignition On, Power and Ground to the Steering ECU. That's it ! These units will run in limp mode, which is a power assist that is more than enough to supply power steering to the light weight of our little hot rods, and if there is a full failure revert back to your original manual steering

2004-2009 Toyota Prius
2009-2013 Toyota Corolla
2006-2011 Toyota Yaris - (With ABS)
2007-2009 Nissan Versa
2009-2012 Nissan Cube
2012-2014 Kia Soul

ECU Part Numbers:

2004-2009 Toyota Prius 89650-47102
2009-2013 Toyota Corolla 89650-02300
2006-2011 Toyota Yaris - (With ABS) 89650-52120 / 52050
2007-2009 Nissan Versa 28500-EM30A / 991-30303
2009-2012 Nissan Cube 28500-1FC0B / JL501-000932
2012-2014 Kia Soul B2563-99500 / 4PSG1312 / FPSG1312

I pulled this list off of the forum "For A Bodies Only" and a post by waid302, Below is a direct link to this post

[www.forabodiesonly.com]



Bv8nc
Mike Peacock
Wilmington, NC
(10 posts)

Registered:
02/23/2015 04:48PM

Main British Car:
1977 MGB Roadster Rover 3.9

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: Bv8nc
Date: March 23, 2017 11:04PM

Hi everyone. Very interesting information.

Has anyone compared the Nissan Versa EPS physically to the Saturn Vue EPS ?
It looks like it uses a similar three bolt flange to mount the upper column to the motor.
That might make it an easy swap for any of us who have modified the MGB mount to bolt to the Vue EPS motor.

Mike


tdecell
Trey Decell
MS
(31 posts)

Registered:
04/10/2010 12:13AM

Main British Car:
1974.5 MGB GT 3.9L Rover

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Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: tdecell
Date: May 14, 2017 10:24PM

I just picked up a unit today from an 08 Nissan Versa. Laying it next to my 74.5 BGT column looks like it won't be too difficult to make work. I did power it up using the red and black wires with it mounted in a vise, it would turn easily to the right but didn't seem to work turning left. There is a small electrical box integral to it with 4 small wires coming from it, any of those needed?



jjohanski
James Johanski

(13 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: November 15, 2017 09:18AM

Has anyone considered the Yaris for the EPS? The Yaris is about the same weight as the MGB and the ECM can control the motor in either fail safe (three wires) or with a square wave speed signal. The speed signal could be generated from the drive shaft with the appropriate hall effect sensor. Comments??
Any final feedback on the comments about the Saturn units lack of self centering?


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 08, 2017 05:41PM

I picked up one out of a '09 Corolla yesterday. Haven't had a chance yet to do anything more than look at it, but the housing diameter is about 1/2" smaller than the one in the Roadmaster and the motor is 1/8" smaller in diameter. Otherwise very similar I think.

Jim


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2546 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: rficalora
Date: December 10, 2017 09:33AM

I've kind of lost track of the options... Have we come up with one that can take a VSS signal or similar to have variable assist? Without an extra external controller? I'm thinking longevity - don't want to rely on a part made by someone who might not be making them any more 5-10 yrs down the road.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 10, 2017 12:06PM

I found from driving the Roadmaster that there is really very little need to change the setting. It's a preference thing of course but I've pretty much left it center scale. If that is the default with no input I think it'll be fine that way.

Jim


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 17, 2017 10:50AM

Had a chance to bench test the EPS unit the other day and it works just fine. Battery positive is on the heavy blue lead, found that by testing. It is the closest one to the red motor lead.

The control unit has four plugs, power, motor, feedback, and control. The motor and feedback plugs go back in the same way they came out so nothing to change there. The power plug has 2 heavy leads. The control plug has 3 wires, a twisted pair and a single lead which in this case I think was also blue. It appears the twisted pair is for variable output control because when I had the battery hooked up to the power leads with blue to + and connected the blue control lead to + I heard a relay click in the control unit after a second or so and knew I was on to something. Afterwards, twisting the input shaft with a small pair of visegrips caused a clear boost in power to the output. Now I'm not certain, there may be a bit more delay or there might be some feedback going on there before full power is applied or whatever. Maybe it needs the resistance of being installed. But at one point it did spin the motor around the shaft while I was playing with it so I know it is working.

So far that is my test result with no Bruno box. If, as reported elsewhere the unit gives midrange power under these conditions I believe that will be quite fine with me. But it'll be some time before I have a modified unit ready to install.

For any of you not intimately familiar with fabbing and prototyping though, I very much recommend getting a unit from Mikey. He's got all this worked out and can sell you a unit ready to bolt in at a reasonable cost. Easy R&R in half a day, Bruno or no Bruno. (I put the potentiometer on the Roadmaster through the top of the left cowl half and it's quite a good place for it.)

For those of you who want to source your own unit, I found the pick-n-pull I go to doesn't know what this is yet. I was able to buy the gearbox as a "steering column" for $50 minus steering wheel and switches (sourced from a car with blown airbags so I didn't feel bad about destroying the parts to remove them), the control box they want another $15 for. But that may not last. Once they figure it out I could see the cost doubling. I just got lucky.

Now about removal: I recommend you not cut the wires to the motor. There is no good reason to do so. You will have to tear the top off the dashboard to get the module out in any case, might as well do that first and just unplug the motor. The module is attached with a sheet metal bracket, that is easily broken loose from the box by flexing the spot welds until they break, after you have it out. You can get about a foot of wire with the power connector and about 6" with the control plug without stripping out the wiring harness. When you wire it in the heavy leads go directly to the battery (or starter) and the small control wire goes to the ignition switch.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3509 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: February 22, 2018 12:48PM

Quote:
For any of you not intimately familiar with fabbing and prototyping though, I very much recommend getting a unit from Mikey. He's got all this worked out and can sell you a unit ready to bolt in at a reasonable cost.


FYI: The "Mikey" that Jim B. is referring to is Mike Moor (Capt'n Moorgone).


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 11, 2018 04:04PM

Another reason...
I finally had time to look at the EPS unit out of the Toyota Corolla and make some closer comparisons. It turns out to be unsuitable for the MGB. The reason is that the motor is positioned on the wrong side. We have room for it to be on the left of the column which is where the ones Mike builds are positioned. The Corolla has the motor on the right side. There just isn't enough room for it to go there. Too bad, the smaller size could have been an advantage.

Jim


Dan B
Dan Blackwood
South Charleston, WV
(952 posts)

Registered:
11/06/2007 01:55PM

Main British Car:
1966 TR4A, 1980 TR7 Multiport EFI MegaSquirt on the TR4A. Lexus V8 pl

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: Dan B
Date: March 11, 2018 08:03PM

I'll take a look at the TR7 and see if there is room there. I'll also look at the TR4A.



mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1917 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: mgb260
Date: April 26, 2018 12:48PM

Hey Guys, Page 5 and 6 on this thread, Robert has his on the right side. Chris Gill is doing his now with the Corolla unit.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: April 26, 2018 05:57PM

That's interesting, I thought things were pretty crowded on that side what with the defroster duct and the vent control.

Jim


jjohanski
James Johanski

(13 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: May 24, 2018 11:36AM

Has anyone used this control? [www.ebay.com] Made by the Bruno fellow. It works by sensing input torque vs steering resistance.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3509 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 24, 2018 12:18PM

Not that I am aware of. That is the new & improved model. If it works well, it would be a nice upgrade!


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 24, 2018 06:05PM

I have completed the fabrication work on the '09 Corolla unit and will attempt the install next week. There was a lot of lathe work involved and motor position will be to the left and up high if I get it to work. Much more involved than Mike's adaptation of the Versa unit, I will go on record as saying that the best approach is to pay Mike to do the adapting and then just swap steering columns and hook up the power. You should be able to do that in an afternoon.

That new Bruno module looks interesting. Wonder if it will work on the Versa? Mike's conversion comes with the knob type Bruno module, I don't know if he's looked at these yet.

Jim
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