Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3946 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: June 14, 2019 03:03PM

Quote:
as I am not yet convinced (after driving an MGB with power steering) that it is really needed.

In most cases, of course not, James. It can make all the difference for some.


jjohanski
James Johanski

(52 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: June 25, 2019 09:34AM

Carl, I agree and think that having the assist at lower speeds and the automatic speed sensitive control to reduce or cancel the assist at higher speeds is the ideal solution. This is what the current technology in the newest cars does. The requirement with the Saturn based systems to adjust (via the Bruno controller) does this but it is not automatic. The Yaris based system does this automatically but requires a pulse generator to "wake" the system up upon starting. The new DCE system seems to do this. All comments are welcome. Anyone out there have experience with the DCE Microsteer system?


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5935 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 25, 2019 10:59AM

Be aware, the EPS will change the steering characteristics of the car whether it is on or off. What you have is a fairly large ring gear being driven by a worm gear on the assist motor. The worm and ring creates resistance. When unpowered that adds to the heavieness of the stock steering, and it reduces the snappy return-to-center that the OEM arrangement creates whether powered or not. Any reduction in camber or caster (particularly caster) will also reduce that effect, whereas wider tires will add to it.

So, adding EPS will reduce steering effort but also reduce return-to-center (which is a bit excessive in the stock MGB anyway). But without power it makes the steering a good bit heavier, as well as the reduction in return-to-center.

Jim


jjohanski
James Johanski

(52 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: June 28, 2019 06:48AM

Jim, Well said and accurate!


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3946 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 01, 2019 01:10PM

I found this interesting:

The Miata has Mazdaís second implementation of rack-mounted electric power steering

The first application was in the RX-8, but while most modern Mazdas use electric power steering, itís really tricky to fit rack-mounted systems in front-wheel-drive cars. In the 2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata, a rack-mount assist system allowed engineers to improve steering feedback (other cars have the assist system in the column, which is less precise). Mazda did experiment with unassisted steering for the new Miata, but officials say the effort at parking speeds would have been too high.



jjohanski
James Johanski

(52 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: July 08, 2019 04:46AM

Carl, Interesting comment. I have two modern cars--the older is a 2018 Chrysler 300 AWD with electric power steering on the rack as the Miata. The steering feel is good with a dampened return to center and almost no caster feel in the straight ahead position. This gives the car a light feel on the highway but the car does not wander. I suspect this feel is programed in. The second car is a slightly newer 2018 Ford Fusion Hybrid. This car has the has the electric power steering on the column and is virtually the same feel as the Chrysler. Again I suspect that is the programming. Both systems are speed sensitive.
This brings me to my present decision. I have decided to through some bucks at this and have purchased a DCE Microsteer system from Flaming River. The unit is in my hands and I plan this week to build some column and bracketry parts. I also hope to do some bench testing. This system goes both ways with a control much like the Bruno controller and an option for a pulse width speed input. I will be using the input from my GPS speedometer at 8000 pulses per mile. Unfortunately road testing will not be done until sometime this fall, when the progress of my V8 conversion is back on all fours. I will post information as available. As always comments are welcome.
BTW, I know that I had said that I did not think the EPAS was all that necessary, but it sure would be nice to have the low speed assist with the highway feel of the unassited MGB. Of course the highway experience will never be as "strong" as a non assisted MGB but if it is as good as either of my two modern cars, I will be quite pleased.
Comments and observations are always welcome.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3946 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 08, 2019 10:21AM

Look forward to your hands on observations, James.



b6281t
Robert Stolt
Glenwood City, WI
(16 posts)

Registered:
03/01/2015 10:39AM

Main British Car:
77 MGB 2008 GM 3800 with T5

Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: b6281t
Date: August 01, 2019 10:16AM

IMG_0343-1.JPG
Over 4 years and 30.000 miles with the Vue power steering unit flipped upside down with no issues.


jjohanski
James Johanski

(52 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: September 09, 2019 12:25PM

I just repeated reading of the recent posts. I was looking to see what the Roadmaster has in it for Power Steering. Did Jim Blackwell install a EPAS in the Roadmaster or was that in his own car? Will the Roadmaster be at the V8 GT in Townsend this year? Thanks to all.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3946 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: April 05, 2020 06:24PM

Since James joined us at the GT in Townsend, his question were answered. For those that were not, yes, the MG Roadmaster now has EPS (EPS column built by Mike Moor & installed by Jim Blackwood). And, no the MG Roadmaster was not there.

Jim has also installed EPS in his own MGB.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2020 11:29AM by MGBV8.


MG-Chuck
Chuck Schaefer

(4 posts)

Registered:
07/21/2020 11:55AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MG-Chuck
Date: July 21, 2020 12:49PM

New member here today. I posted my implementation of a Prius EPS (EPAS) unit in my '69 MG project on The MG Experience. Carl Floyd suggested that I join this site and share it here.

The unit I chose was from a 2009 Toyota Prius. I needed to mate the MG steering column to the Prius. At the front end, I cut off the Priusís outer column and trimmed the inner tube extension to length. I removed the key steering lock sleeve and cut the MG inner to the required length. The 2 fit together well. I plug welded them in 2 places and then ran a bead around the joint for a belts an suspenders repair.

The lower section required a purchased Borgeson adapter that fit rather well. Then the sliding shaft was disassembled cut and welded together to get the required OAL as the MG OEM column. I did lose the collapsible feature in this implementation. I could have kept that function but would only have had an inch or two of collapse. I decided to make it simpler and ended up with a solid shaft.

The MG steering mount bracket needed to be relieved to make room for the drive assembly. That made it a bit flimsy. I added some reinforcement that cleared the drive. I addition I used that reinforcement to become the torque link for the motor. Also changed was the MG outer column mounting tabs.

The Prius unit (and many other Japanese cars) uses a limp-home mode if it's control box cannot communicate via the CAN link. The controller unit is required. The only external wiring necessary are Battery, Ground and ignition on.

To mount the controller, I ground off the original mounting tabs from the EPS control unit. The OEM mount fit 3 different crazy body locations that simply do not exist in the MGB. I was concerned that I may destroy the electronics internally with all the heat and electrical noise of the cutoff wheel on my angle grinder. I figured if it was designed properly, as I expect all major auto manufacturers do, it should be well protected from spurious noise on any unused inputs, so I moved forward with that plan. I fabricated an aluminum case to enclose the box and mount it to the vertical firewall virtually right next to the motor of the EPS unit. Added 4 rivet nuts to the firewall. The box now screws to the firewall with four 10-32 screws.

I tested the system in situ. Lo and behold, it still works as it should. No damage was done during my br@cketectomy procedure.

I wonít know for a few years yet how this will work out. I am doing the required mods while I finish up attacking the body repairs and V6/auto installation etc.

I hope this info helps others.
EPS Complete.jpg
EPS support 2.jpg
eps installed 4.jpg
eps installed 3.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2020 09:50AM by MGBV8.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5935 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: July 22, 2020 11:11AM

The collapsible column feature should be retained if possible, MGs have had a collapsible column since the Mark-II I believe.

Jim


MG-Chuck
Chuck Schaefer

(4 posts)

Registered:
07/21/2020 11:55AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MG-Chuck
Date: July 22, 2020 10:35PM

I agree with you Jim. It should be kept, even if greatly reduced. The drive assembly did take up a lot of the space available for the collapse feature. Like I stated, I could have kept maybe 2 inches of collapse(ability?) had I had enough forward vision to do my cuts accordingly. I made a judgement call that I am OK with. I do not recommend others follow.
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