Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: July 02, 2022 08:29AM

6.5 degrees of caster in the MX3. That's even more than the 5 degrees in the MGB. Then they used that to provide the centering. I think we may be onto something here.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 02, 2022 08:43AM

I have seen the MGB listed as 7 degrees, as well as 5 degrees. I would love to see someone's alignment printout.

'Engineers behind the new 2014 Mazda 3 have tuned the steering setup of the third-generation 3 to the point that it mimics the best parts of a manual steering system for better response and feedback."

Y'all may convert me yet.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 02, 2022 09:13AM

Frontline & Moss Motors both say that the MGB was designed with 6.5 degrees of trailing castor. I have also seen 7 degrees mentioned elsewhere. Either is perfectly fine with me.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: July 02, 2022 04:37PM

Should work well with the MX3 EPS. Local Pick-n-pull has nothing newer than 2011 so they are out. Might look around some though. Wider tires will increase the caster effect. Wonder what the MX3 unit does in limp mode?

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 03, 2022 09:14AM

"Wider tires will increase the caster effect"

Taller will, but wider? How so?

Your wide front tires should require less negative camber & a bit more toe-in.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: July 03, 2022 11:54AM

I guess it depends on whether or not they are wider inboard or wider outboard. Inboard wouldn't make any difference but outboard would increase the jacking effect.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 03, 2022 12:18PM

Which is why a bit more toe-in is needed.



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: July 03, 2022 10:22PM

Um... maybe? I've found wider tires don't need as much toe in and wear fast if they do.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 04, 2022 08:38AM

As much? I run zero to slightly out. :)

It's always a balance with toe-in & negative camber. A matter of finding the right combo for one's tires & driving style.


302GT
Larry Shimp

(226 posts)

Registered:
11/17/2007 01:13PM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GT Ford 302 crate engine

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: 302GT
Date: July 31, 2022 12:51PM

The stock MGB caster angle is about 6.5 degrees. A large caster angle gives a strong self-centering action and causes beneficial camber gain during cornering but also increases the heaviness of the steering. Most modern cars have power steering as standard and as such have large caster angles in the range of 6 to 8 degrees or more. For years I had a Mercedes 240 diesel and the shop manual specified 8.5 degrees of caster on cars with power steering and about 4 degrees on cars without (only available in Europe). One of the features of the Fast Cars MGB front suspension is a reduced caster angle (nominal 3 degrees, range 2.5 to 5 degrees). This is a main contributor to a lighter steering feel. Mike Moor has a Fast Cars front suspension in his MGB with power steering. I wonder what the caster setting is? I drove his car at the Auburn meet and it had some self-centering action. I would have preferred more centering, but it did work predictably. I have a Hoyle front suspension in my MGB but since it still uses the MGB cross member I am also running caster wedges to reduce the caster to about 3 degrees. I am considering removing the caster wedges and returning to the stock setting. At that point I may seriously consider adding power steering. I also have the Moss fast ratio steering rack which might be beneficial for a more robust self-centering action; (I wonder how that compares to the Fast Cars steering rack?). Still, in looking through this thread I am not sure if some of the centering problems are related to caster settings.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: July 31, 2022 01:57PM

Larry, after 1014 Mazda used EPS in the 3 and 6 models. You might want to have a look at those.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: August 01, 2022 09:16AM

I am not aware of Mike having increased his castor any. His was the #1 test prototype, so not sure what his castor angle actually is.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2760 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: rficalora
Date: August 03, 2022 04:43PM

I thought Steve Carrick had the #1 prototype IFS?


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: August 04, 2022 12:16PM

Maybe so.

Mike's car is the one that Ted had Bob Senneker test. Bob drove Mike's car with his OEM crossmember (& bolt-on tube shock conversion - it's sitting in my garage). Bob told Ted "You're going to improve on this?" Then, Bob drove it with Ted's IFS & said "You improved it!"

Back when I was considering flared fenders, I asked Ted if he could make it a bit wider for a wider track. He said he could probably make it up to 2 inches wider without upsetting the geometry. Not much later, that became an option.

Steve had the first 3-link in an MGB (with Ted's help). My idea, though. :)


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2760 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: rficalora
Date: August 04, 2022 11:10PM

We're getting off topic for this thread, but when Andrew got his IFS from the Sennekers, they told him they're only going to be doing stock width going forward. If they stick to that, he got one of the last wider ones.



MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4284 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: August 05, 2022 09:35AM

Bummer.

I could be wrong, but I believe the only difference is the A-arm length.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2022 12:22PM by MGBV8.


302GT
Larry Shimp

(226 posts)

Registered:
11/17/2007 01:13PM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GT Ford 302 crate engine

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: 302GT
Date: August 06, 2022 07:40PM

The Hoyle front suspension in my car is 1 inch wider (each side) than stock. A few years after I bought it, Hoyle announced the availability of the wider suspension and I obtained a set of suspension arms which I have been using ever since. Looking at their current web site, there is no mention of wider arms which means either they do not offer them any more or the wider arms are now standard. The wider suspension allows my wider wheels and tires to clear the through-the-fender exhaust, with the stock width I had to install steering stops in the rack.
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