Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5521 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 31, 2018 09:50AM

I did the comparison test drives this morning. First, I do not know what gearbox Mike uses. It may be the Toyota Yaris, I think that is the most likely. Maybe Carl knows.

So first off, the turn-on, turn-off comparison was a little odd. Mike's unit came on in a little over 1 second and stayed on after key-off for about 3-1/2 seconds. That's what I would expect of normal operation. The Corolla unit took over 3 seconds to come on and powered off in less than a second. To me this suggests an RC circuit with a failing capacitor in the module I have. I will have to watch for a gradually increasing turn-on delay. Chris, please let me know what yours does if you will.

In terms of power they were very similar with the Bruno knob on Mike's unit set to about half scale, and that is where I have been driving it. In terms of self centering, also very similar. At anything over 1/8 turn they do have a reasonable level of return. Below that not very much at all.

Driving feel was very similar as well.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3374 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 31, 2018 10:20AM

Mike used a Chevy Equinox unit on his B. Not sure what he sent for the RM. Maybe the same?


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5521 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 31, 2018 11:10AM

I'm pretty sure it is the same one he used for his own car. If Bruno sells a box for the Equinox that's probably it.

Jim


jjohanski
James Johanski

(10 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: May 31, 2018 11:45AM

I have found out from other web postings that the new Bruno automatic control is not really automatic. It just emulates settings. For me that makes the Yaris column and ECU w/o ABS a better alternative as it controls input via a speed signal, from a hall effect source and not the CanBus. Others using it on various Fords have found this to work and with good self centering. If I was to use the Saturn/Equinox unit I would just use the regular Bruno knob.
This feedback on self centering is so subjective. I drive two different cars with EPS and they both self center but not anything like the MGB stock steering. Maybe all of these different approaches are ok.
I will probably try the Yaris setup.


cgill
Chris Gill
Salmon Arm, British Columbia
(129 posts)

Registered:
08/13/2009 12:06AM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB roadster Buick 300 stroker with EFI

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Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: cgill
Date: June 01, 2018 11:38AM

I think I found my issue after a whole bunch of testing with both the new and modified column.

It's the black torque sensor piece that mounts directly on the column. The one in my modified column appears to be bad - it continuously turns to the left or right depending on which way I have the sensor mounted in the housing). Both torque sensors (new and old) work as they should when I test them in my new EPS.

So the question is, how do I remove this piece and replace it with the one from my new EPS without damaging the thing? I have to do this because the column on my current EPS has the correct splines welded to it to slide into my modified upper MG column (as you can see in the photo.
IMG_7057.JPG


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5521 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 01, 2018 04:09PM

Simplest thing to do Chris, since that one is bad, would be to see if you can budge it with a couple prybars. Doesn't matter if you break it, and in fact if the prybars don't work a hammer should. Then based on what you find there you can figure out how to remove the good one.

But here's the thing. There has to be a limited compliance coupling of some kind built into it, along with a strain gage. You may destroy the gage but you don't necessarily want to destroy the coupling. So you might have to chip away at it slowly to get to the inside. I'm just guessing the reason you don't want to tear it up is because of the tig weld. I kept the spline instead and didn't have that issue. Could be the heat destroyed it.

But the bottom line is that it had to go together somehow so you would think it could be disassembled... and it's already bad.

Good luck with it, I was wondering about that myself and didn't see any obvious way to do it.

The good news is that there is a workaround, the bad news is that it doesn't involve your nice tig weld.

Jim


cgill
Chris Gill
Salmon Arm, British Columbia
(129 posts)

Registered:
08/13/2009 12:06AM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB roadster Buick 300 stroker with EFI

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: cgill
Date: June 01, 2018 08:02PM

Thanks Jim. I guess that's the approach I'll have to take. Ugh.



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5521 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 02, 2018 08:01AM

Yeah I sympathize. Might want to concentrate on those two metal rings and try to break out the plastic between them. It could be phenolic in which case it should break out easily.

It is possible they assembled the pieces and then injection molded it either with phenolic (heat-set resin) or a heat melt resin. In either case disassembly probably means some degree of destruction. Or if very lucky it just might press apart.

Jim


jjohanski
James Johanski

(10 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: June 05, 2018 01:24PM

Here are some other things I have found out through web research:
The Toyota Yaris units are fragile and subject to damage to the torque sensor. Additionally the ECU and steering column should be matched and if not may require recalibrating which cannot be done without a diagnostic plug. Recalibration of the Saturn unit is done with pot inside of the ECU. Advantage here is Saturn (aka Equinox). The Prius unit operates in fail safe without the need for a Bruno controller but may be too much assist. The amount of assist needed is subjective which gives those units that need a Bruno controller an advantage. The ability to return to center is more related to the castor angle than the steering unit. Most have found that 5 degrees is needed for good return to center and the stock MGB has about 6 degrees so should be ok no matter what unit is used. The Saturn unit is the most used and readily available along with the matching ECU. Most of the Mustang and British car guys use the Saturn unit. The Bruno automatic controller while not being speed sensitive is torque feed back sensitive which may be just as good as a speed controlled unit as the Yaris.
So now I am leaning to the Saturn unit. Off to the pick and pull to get one for testing.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5521 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 05, 2018 02:16PM

Mike's conversion of the Saturn unit is relatively straightforward. In general I would recommend that unit over the Corolla even though it is larger, because the conversion is simpler. Therefore whether you do it yourself or buy one from Mike already set up, the cost in time/money is less. The Corolla does make a neater installation as it can tuck completely up behind the dash.

The Prius unit is similar to the Corolla. Limp mode is very close to the Saturn at half scale on the Bruno knob, quite acceptable. Return to center is near identical as far as I can tell.

Jim


cgill
Chris Gill
Salmon Arm, British Columbia
(129 posts)

Registered:
08/13/2009 12:06AM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB roadster Buick 300 stroker with EFI

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: cgill
Date: June 06, 2018 01:02PM

That's funny, return to centre on my Corolla EPS was much better than the Saturn unit I had.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5521 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 07, 2018 06:43PM

Well, my car and the Roadmaster are not set up identically in the front ends so your back-to-back testing should be the more accurate comparison.

Jim


jjohanski
James Johanski

(10 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: June 09, 2018 10:46AM

TO Chris: So did you get your problems sorted out? You comment that the Toyota unit was better than the Saturn for return to center, so I presume that your Toyota unit is working fine now? Please comment.
I have a Yaris unit and a Saturn unit from the pic n pull. I am awaiting some parts in order to do a test.


jjohanski
James Johanski

(10 posts)

Registered:
11/15/2017 08:57AM

Main British Car:


Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: jjohanski
Date: June 15, 2018 08:01AM

I have just received the Bruno Automatic control and bench tested it on the Saturn Vue steering column that I got from the Pic and Pull. It seems to work well and does vary the output as the amount of resistance is increased. Of course this test is subjective and done on a bench with two vise grip pliers. What happens once in the car will be the real test, but that will not happen for me for a couple of months.
The Yaris unit that I got does not seem to work--I think that the torque sensor is damaged. The car that donated the unit was hit on the front end. As I said before, the Yaris unit may be the most fragile.
Next task is to build the column and install it in the car, and then do some road testing. I will report back on this when complete.
In the interim, any feedback from others is welcome.
I hope to see some EPAS units at this year's get together in Ohio.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5521 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric Power Steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: June 15, 2018 09:39AM

Should be several there. Undoubtedly Mike's car, my car, the Roadmaster, I'm pretty sure others will be there also.

One of the biggest challenges is retaining the collapsible column feature and there are several ways to do that. Time will tell what works the best.

Jim

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