Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

Mike used a Chevy Equinox unit on his B. Not sure what he sent for the RM. Maybe the same?

I'm pretty sure it is the same one he used for his own car. If Bruno sells a box for the Equinox that's probably it.

Jim

I have found out from other web postings that the new Bruno automatic control is not really automatic. It just emulates settings. For me that makes the Yaris column and ECU w/o ABS a better alternative as it controls input via a speed signal, from a hall effect source and not the CanBus. Others using it on various Fords have found this to work and with good self centering. If I was to use the Saturn/Equinox unit I would just use the regular Bruno knob.
This feedback on self centering is so subjective. I drive two different cars with EPS and they both self center but not anything like the MGB stock steering. Maybe all of these different approaches are ok.
I will probably try the Yaris setup.

I think I found my issue after a whole bunch of testing with both the new and modified column.

It's the black torque sensor piece that mounts directly on the column. The one in my modified column appears to be bad - it continuously turns to the left or right depending on which way I have the sensor mounted in the housing). Both torque sensors (new and old) work as they should when I test them in my new EPS.

So the question is, how do I remove this piece and replace it with the one from my new EPS without damaging the thing? I have to do this because the column on my current EPS has the correct splines welded to it to slide into my modified upper MG column (as you can see in the photo.

Simplest thing to do Chris, since that one is bad, would be to see if you can budge it with a couple prybars. Doesn't matter if you break it, and in fact if the prybars don't work a hammer should. Then based on what you find there you can figure out how to remove the good one.

But here's the thing. There has to be a limited compliance coupling of some kind built into it, along with a strain gage. You may destroy the gage but you don't necessarily want to destroy the coupling. So you might have to chip away at it slowly to get to the inside. I'm just guessing the reason you don't want to tear it up is because of the tig weld. I kept the spline instead and didn't have that issue. Could be the heat destroyed it.

But the bottom line is that it had to go together somehow so you would think it could be disassembled... and it's already bad.

Good luck with it, I was wondering about that myself and didn't see any obvious way to do it.

The good news is that there is a workaround, the bad news is that it doesn't involve your nice tig weld.

Jim

Thanks Jim. I guess that's the approach I'll have to take. Ugh.

Yeah I sympathize. Might want to concentrate on those two metal rings and try to break out the plastic between them. It could be phenolic in which case it should break out easily.

It is possible they assembled the pieces and then injection molded it either with phenolic (heat-set resin) or a heat melt resin. In either case disassembly probably means some degree of destruction. Or if very lucky it just might press apart.

Jim

Here are some other things I have found out through web research:
The Toyota Yaris units are fragile and subject to damage to the torque sensor. Additionally the ECU and steering column should be matched and if not may require recalibrating which cannot be done without a diagnostic plug. Recalibration of the Saturn unit is done with pot inside of the ECU. Advantage here is Saturn (aka Equinox). The Prius unit operates in fail safe without the need for a Bruno controller but may be too much assist. The amount of assist needed is subjective which gives those units that need a Bruno controller an advantage. The ability to return to center is more related to the castor angle than the steering unit. Most have found that 5 degrees is needed for good return to center and the stock MGB has about 6 degrees so should be ok no matter what unit is used. The Saturn unit is the most used and readily available along with the matching ECU. Most of the Mustang and British car guys use the Saturn unit. The Bruno automatic controller while not being speed sensitive is torque feed back sensitive which may be just as good as a speed controlled unit as the Yaris.
So now I am leaning to the Saturn unit. Off to the pick and pull to get one for testing.

Mike's conversion of the Saturn unit is relatively straightforward. In general I would recommend that unit over the Corolla even though it is larger, because the conversion is simpler. Therefore whether you do it yourself or buy one from Mike already set up, the cost in time/money is less. The Corolla does make a neater installation as it can tuck completely up behind the dash.

The Prius unit is similar to the Corolla. Limp mode is very close to the Saturn at half scale on the Bruno knob, quite acceptable. Return to center is near identical as far as I can tell.

Jim

That's funny, return to centre on my Corolla EPS was much better than the Saturn unit I had.

Well, my car and the Roadmaster are not set up identically in the front ends so your back-to-back testing should be the more accurate comparison.

Jim

TO Chris: So did you get your problems sorted out? You comment that the Toyota unit was better than the Saturn for return to center, so I presume that your Toyota unit is working fine now? Please comment.
I have a Yaris unit and a Saturn unit from the pic n pull. I am awaiting some parts in order to do a test.

I have just received the Bruno Automatic control and bench tested it on the Saturn Vue steering column that I got from the Pic and Pull. It seems to work well and does vary the output as the amount of resistance is increased. Of course this test is subjective and done on a bench with two vise grip pliers. What happens once in the car will be the real test, but that will not happen for me for a couple of months.
The Yaris unit that I got does not seem to work--I think that the torque sensor is damaged. The car that donated the unit was hit on the front end. As I said before, the Yaris unit may be the most fragile.
Next task is to build the column and install it in the car, and then do some road testing. I will report back on this when complete.
In the interim, any feedback from others is welcome.
I hope to see some EPAS units at this year's get together in Ohio.

Should be several there. Undoubtedly Mike's car, my car, the Roadmaster, I'm pretty sure others will be there also.

One of the biggest challenges is retaining the collapsible column feature and there are several ways to do that. Time will tell what works the best.

Jim

Well a year has almost gone by and there has been no postings on the EPAS subject. Carl Floyd PM'd me and asked if I had gotten any further along--I have not as I am not yet convinced (after driving an MGB with power steering) that it is really needed. I do think that there is a lack of centering with the Saturn conversions, but not unmanageable. I definetly like the feedback on a non PS car on the highway.
I still think that the best solution is the Yaris unit with a VSS input. This unit from non ABS cars is the only unit I know of with the ability to vary the sensitivity vs the speed of the car. As I said earlier, the Yaris seems fragile as the unit I got from the Pic and Pull did not work, the car having suffered front end damage. I still would like to try a Yaris unit and use a vss from a GPS speedo. This if works would be the best with real speed sensitive variance and according to those who use Yaris (also Prius, Nissan, and other Japanese based systems) with the ability to give steering feedback and centering at all speeds. So I may just opt to obtain another Yaris unit and try it.
Any thoughts????

I like the Toyota, I think I got more column collapse but it requires machining. Limp mode is 50% which is about right for the B with wider tires. However, without a VSS signal it takes 3 seconds to initialize. Pros and cons. With stock weight and tires is it worth it? Maybe not.



Jim

Still thinking about EPAS. Any one with experience on this?: [www.dcemotorsport.com]

Here is something that is also interesting: [forums.y-blocksforever.com]

Thanks for that link. They seem to have the Yaris unit sorted out, and even have the connector body and pin numbers and sources. Not so much on the Prius unit. So as it stands now, if you are willing and able to provide a VSS signal of some sort it looks like the Yaris will do speed sensitive steering, which is a great benefit with heavier cars. It appears that MGB owners using the Bruno box are mostly setting it somewhere midrange and leaving it there. My experience with the Prius unit is that the midrange default (43mph) works well with wide tires and a bit of extra vehicle weight. YMMV.

Jim

Quote:

as I am not yet convinced (after driving an MGB with power steering) that it is really needed.

In most cases, of course not, James. It can make all the difference for some.