Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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TNV8
Abe DeG

(35 posts)

Registered:
10/18/2011 09:48AM

Main British Car:
MGB 1980 Ford 302

Changing front suspension
Posted by: TNV8
Date: December 09, 2012 07:14PM

Have a question about the front suspension from Fast Cars [www.fastcarsinc.com]. I have in my 1980 MGB Pete Mantels conversion 302 V8 and looking to upgrade it. Any thoughts? Will the 302 engine mounts line up or will the engine have to be moved? I am sure a have a lot more questions…..


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(947 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: December 11, 2012 09:05AM

I can't imagine that there would be a significant disparity in location between Pete's and Ted's engine location - the 302 pretty well seeks it's own location in the space available. If you decide to buy Ted's suspension, then the engine location will be well thought out.
Give Pete a call - he's familiar with both setups.


TNV8
Abe DeG

(35 posts)

Registered:
10/18/2011 09:48AM

Main British Car:
MGB 1980 Ford 302

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: TNV8
Date: April 12, 2013 09:56AM

I’m still batting around if I want to spend all that money and pull the engine to install the front suspension from Fast Cars. I did find this in the Moss catalog has any one used this before?
Thanks


[www.mossmotors.com]


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(167 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: mstemp
Date: April 12, 2013 11:05AM

Installing my Moss kit right now with a set of Dropped spindles from John Tagett. Too soon for me to comment on anything except the installation. I do hope it ends up being worth the effort. If you go this route I would also try one of the caster reduction kits. As far as installation goes ignore the mutiple holes moss tell you to drill and use a 1 3/4" hole saw. Makes for a nice clean cut and takes less time. I chose to drop the whole sub frame but that was not so smart after all. I figured would be easier to drill and assmble but to get the front sub frame bolts done up again you cant have te coil over in place. So effectivly I had to reinstall the bare subframe and then reassemble the new suspension in situe. PIA.



If you also want big brakes you might get more cost/bennifit from the complete front end kits of Fast Cars or Classic Conversion. As I already had 4 piston calipers I went the Moss route. Also needed new lower control arms, inner pivots and finally a kingpin set so I savde very little in the proccess besides the cost of brakes. If you go with the moss kit keep Moss UK in mind as they had 20% off last fall and shipping was less than $100 for 22kg via air from UK! Arrived in 2 days also. Curtis has also used this setup, maybe he will be able to give greater feedback on how the car handles now.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4290 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: Moderator
Date: April 12, 2013 11:25AM

Yes, it's on a number of cars in the gallery and if you poke around you'll find we've discussed it previously on this message board a couple times.

I used the Moss coilover kit from about 1991 through 2011, which is probably about as long as anyone. It's robust enough. The shocks and springs are good quality. You can easily change springs to get whatever rate you prefer. You can easily fine tune ride height. If you use the kit to change ride height very dramatically, you'll cause an increase in bump steer (just as you would by fitting shortened front springs). What the Moss kit doesn't do is alter the suspension's fundamental geometry or significantly reduce the suspension's weight (sprung or unsprung.)

By 2012, my shock absorbers were well worn out so I needed to make a change. I kept the lower spring pans and ordered new shock absorbers from Moss UK. I ordered new springs from Eibach. At the top, I discarded the Moss kit's mounting blocks and upper control arm in favor of reworked Armstrong lever shocks with gutted internals. I installed dropped spindles from Targett Motorsport to lower the car while raising the front suspension's roll center. I installed modified steering arms to dramatically reduce bump steer. IMHO, in combination, those changes dramatically improved how well the Moss kit works on my car. At this time, I'm completing the job by fitting a Wilwood big brake kit from Classic Conversions. (The MGB iron brake calipers are rather heavy.)


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(947 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: April 13, 2013 09:57AM

This all sounds familiar - this Winter's project was to install the Moss coilover, Dick Luening raised spindles, and CCE's big brake kit. Still waiting for Spring to arrive to try it all out.

Moss coilover2.jpg

Wilood front1.jpg

Moss coilover3.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2013 09:59AM by ex-tyke.


MGB-FV8
Jacques Mathieu
Alexandria, VA
(299 posts)

Registered:
09/11/2009 08:55PM

Main British Car:
1977 MGB Small Block Ford, 331 Stroker

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: MGB-FV8
Date: April 14, 2013 11:24PM

What about Bill Guzman's new balljoint set up???



ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(947 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: April 15, 2013 08:38AM

Quote:
What about Bill Guzman's new balljoint set up???...

Unless things have changed with Bill's front suspension design options, the aluminum hub wasn't going to have a 4 x 4.5" bolt pattern available - just Ford (5 x 4.5") and Chevy (5 x 5.75")



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 08:39AM by ex-tyke.


NCtim
Tim Shumbera
Western North Carolina
(234 posts)

Registered:
01/19/2012 04:35PM

Main British Car:


Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: NCtim
Date: April 15, 2013 04:25PM

What spring rates are you all using. I know Curtis' car is set up for track events, what about leisurely, Sunday twisty road trips with a wife on board?


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(947 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: April 16, 2013 09:57AM

Mine are the same as Curtis' ........ 525# rated front springs with the Moss suspension kit.
Haven't had the opportunity to try them out yet.....


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(167 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: mstemp
Date: April 17, 2013 07:50AM

I went with the base 475# ones from Moss. Also have yet to drive it. Maybe this weekend if the snow and rain stop!


TNV8
Abe DeG

(35 posts)

Registered:
10/18/2011 09:48AM

Main British Car:
MGB 1980 Ford 302

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: TNV8
Date: April 19, 2013 06:24PM

Ok guys when you get them on the road can you report back and tell me how it handles? My car has a ford 302 not sure what everybody else is running.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4290 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: Moderator
Date: April 19, 2013 07:33PM

Today I bolted on one of Bill Guzman's big brake kits - 11.75" vented rotors and 4 piston Wilwood calipers!

While I had the car up on jackstands, I adjusted ride height again. Springs settle over time. Coilovers make it easy to lift the suspension back up to desired ride height.

The GAZ shocks in the Moss kit have adjustment knobs on them. The knob on one shock turns properly. The knob on the other shock is all bound up. I haven't figured out how much that bothers me, but I'll work on getting it loose. From my point of view, it would have been preferable if Moss had optimized dampening rates and then had them built into non-adjustable shocks. Adjustable valves increase the likelihood of problems.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1191 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: April 19, 2013 09:48PM

But not having those little knobs would remove the "fiddle factor".
It's no fun to hop into your car and just drive away without adjusting something!
Cheers
Fred


NCtim
Tim Shumbera
Western North Carolina
(234 posts)

Registered:
01/19/2012 04:35PM

Main British Car:


Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: NCtim
Date: April 22, 2013 07:27PM

Curtis,
Please give us some feedback on your new brakes. The Moss suspension is pretty economical and seems to be set up pretty decently. I just trailered home my new project and am already shopping! I'm like a kid in a candy store tonight!

Cheers!
Tim
2013-04-20-73MGB - Copy.jpg



mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(167 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: mstemp
Date: April 23, 2013 09:59PM

Just drove my Moss Coilover for the first time and it was definatly worth the $$ and time! With the poor roads in my town a smother ride was my main objective. I also installed the FrontLine caster wedges and Dick's raised stub axles. This combination has given me exactly what I wanted,lighter steering effort, smoother ride and no more bump steer.


TNV8
Abe DeG

(35 posts)

Registered:
10/18/2011 09:48AM

Main British Car:
MGB 1980 Ford 302

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: TNV8
Date: April 24, 2013 09:05AM

Mike what engine setup are you running? I am trying to determine the spring rate to use, I have a ford 302 crate engine with aluminum heads not sure what the spring rate to use.

Thanks


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(167 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: mstemp
Date: April 24, 2013 09:24AM

Abe,

Rover 4.6L with Ford T5. I understand you would be 50 lb or so heavier. Do you have rubber or chrome bumpers as those make more of a diff than the 302 likely. Nice thing with the Coilover is springs are cheap and plentiful should you go too stiff. How are your roads? Maybe go one step up from the base Moss spring of 475 lb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2013 10:41AM by mstemp.


TNV8
Abe DeG

(35 posts)

Registered:
10/18/2011 09:48AM

Main British Car:
MGB 1980 Ford 302

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: TNV8
Date: April 24, 2013 09:54AM

Mike,
I have a 1980 RB live in mountains of TN. Thanks for the info.


TNV8
Abe DeG

(35 posts)

Registered:
10/18/2011 09:48AM

Main British Car:
MGB 1980 Ford 302

Re: Changing front suspension
Posted by: TNV8
Date: May 04, 2013 07:13AM

I was looking at a few blogs on the net and on this web site and some mention that the cross member needs to be modified, is that for an old version of the Moss coil over or is it a direct bolt on?
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