Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2120 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Torque steer
Posted by: mgb260
Date: September 30, 2013 04:30PM

Rob, S10 has sealed bearing hubs. I would buy GM OEM. The aftermarket stuff is usually made offshore. The Fiero guys (Rodney Dickman) sells a replacement hub that has tapered roller bearings for the Fiero because of the inferior replacement parts. I don't think there is one available for S10 axle spline.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer
Posted by: rficalora
Date: October 06, 2013 10:58AM

Checked into GM hubs... will have to see if I can get them more reasonably. Chevy dealer wants $591 each!

Since the ones I had were 3yr warranty ones, I went ahead and swapped them out so I could get the car back on the road.

Any other ideas why they are wearing out so fast? I get that OEM should be better, but surely even after market should be getting better than 500 miles.

Some info that might help diagnose:
- Left side is wearing out noticeably more than right.
- Right side was just starting to show wear
- There is a cast aluminum bracket for the brake caliper, about 1 1/2" thick, that is bolted between the upright and the hub.
They have about a 3/16" hole that might be a drain hole. On the right side it is at the bottom. On the left side it is at the top.
Car has only been in the rain 2 or 3 times in the last 500 miles.
- Uprights are steel plate, about 1/4" thick with another 1/2" plate welded (TIG) on the outside
(extra 1/2" was added because lower control arms rubbed on back of wheels when IRS was being designed/built).
Uprights are powder coated. Have wondered whether welding may have introduced slight warping - thinking unlikely
given thickness & TIG?
- Don't think it'd be affecting the rear hubs, but I did find the bolt going through the him that ties the steering arm to the
front upright was loose - note to self and others, check under the car more often!! That could have been disastrous.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2120 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: mgb260
Date: October 06, 2013 09:13PM

Rob, Those are probably ABS sensor holes. Do a search on greasing the sealed bearing hubs. Probably too late for those but I did a search and you can make a tool with tubing to fit in the ABS hole with a 90 degree grease fitting and grease your new ones. Holes should be on top both sides. One guy took apart a set of hubs and there was just a little bit of grease on one side of the bearings .Don't fill them until you blow the seals. just a little expansion or grease showing at the seal. they can vent through the ABS holes. They should still last 100,000 miles normally. Do you have extreme camber on your rear wheel alignment or is your rear wheel offset extremely negative? Try a dial indicator and check for runout on your new hubs to see if they are square to your uprights.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1308 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: October 07, 2013 01:19PM

Hey Rob,
the most common failure mode that I see is axle nuts that aren't torqued up fully.
In your case they should be somewhere around 180 ftlbs. (which is really tight)
The axles are the only thing that hold the bearings together.
The second and hardest to trace, is poor drive train grounding.
If your engine ground is weak or non existent, starting the car causes the battery to look for a path to the starter.
Often this is through your throttle linkage which melts of jams up inexplicably.Or the speedo cable which does the same.
The next most likely path is through the trans, to the driveshaft, to the diffy, throught the drive axles, across the wheel bearings and finally through the suspension to ground.
In this situation any one of the bearings in the chain can be affected. From trans to diffy. I've even seen a syncro welded onto it's cone.
Cheers
Fred


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: rficalora
Date: October 07, 2013 04:02PM

Jim, you might be right on the holes. The hubs have an ABS ring on them so it makes sense that there'd have to be a sensor and the wires would have to go somewhere.

Fred, I think my ground is good. I have a 1/0 ground running from the battery up to a bolt on the frame. Fastened to that same bolt is a braided groung strap that goes to the block. I also have another braided ground between the trans tail section and the rear cross member.

But, your comment combined with Rick's post about his header bolts has me thinking. The left hub was warn enough I could wiggle it by hand. But, after knocking out the lugs, I was no longer able to wiggle it as if knocking out the lugs pressed it back together.

Before removing the hub, I checked the axle but and it was tight, but I didn't check it with a torque wrench to see how tight.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1308 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: October 07, 2013 04:51PM

Make sure that the nut is tightening up against the bearing and not just bottoming out or something similar.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: rficalora
Date: January 18, 2014 07:55PM

Woo-hoo!! I've finally figured it out.

Hubs failed again. Has been 3 months & about 600-700 miles. So, I took them apart again today. 1st clue was the right side one was difficult to pull off the stub axle. I had to make a puller to get it loose. I was taking some pictures to show some folks on an IRS board & on one of the stub axle, the flash caught an area that had been rubbed thru the paint. So I started looking closer... found the diameter of that part of my stub axle is about 0.07" bigger than the hole thru the bearing assembly - keeping them from seating properly. You can see where it's hitting on the inside of the bearing assembly.

So, now I just need to decide what to do about it. If I had a lathe, I'd just turn it down to fit, but I don't. So, I'm going to call the folks who made the axles & see if the Nissan CV's will fit the axle shafts they used -- I still have the old Nissan CV's and the stub axle portion fits the S10 bearing/hub assembly so swapping them out would be the easiest fix I think.

CORRECTION: The issue isn't the diameter of that stub axle section, it's the length of it.

Bearing Failure cause 1.jpg

Bearing Failure cause 2.jpg

Bearing Failure cause 3.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 07:12PM by rficalora.



DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1308 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: January 20, 2014 12:46PM

Good eye Rob.
You can use a shim to take up the clearance.
Any good trans shop should have a selection of hardened shims that would work.
Cheers
Fred


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: rficalora
Date: January 20, 2014 03:53PM

Good to know Fred. I sent an email last night to the folks I got the axles from ("The Drive Shaft Shop" in Salsbury NC) and had a reply already this morning. Recognized the problem immediately, apologized, told me they were supposed to machine that area, said they'd fix it, issued RMA number, and said they'd send me a return mailing label. Can't ask for better support than that!

Oh yeah, I did some measurements on the Nissan parts. All the length dimensions for the CV joint and stub axle were good, but my drive shaft shop axle shafts are 1" vs 26mm for the Nissan ones so the CV wouldn't fit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2014 03:57PM by rficalora.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2120 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: mgb260
Date: January 21, 2014 09:34PM

Rob, Congrats on finding the issue and reporting back to us. Too many threads build up and then disappear without resolution. This info may help someone else in the future



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2014 10:08PM by mgb260.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6069 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Torque steer (evolved to hubs wearing out fast)
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 22, 2014 11:02AM

Glad to hear you found the problem.
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