Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Another shock failure...
Posted by: rficalora
Date: September 29, 2013 10:04PM

Same shock as the Roadmaster, but unless the Roadmaster shock's bearing mount was messed up, it's probably unrelated. I'd noticed some "creaking" noise under the car the last few times I drove it. Was going to take it to Austin this week so figured I better look at it first.

I put it on jack stands and rolled under it. At first, I noticed one of my exhaust clamp bolts was touching the frame. Shortened it anyway, but no paint was worn so don't think it was rubbing.

But, I did notice my right front wheel had some play in it coming from the shock's lower mount. When I took the shock out, I noticed one of the spherical bearing retaining clips was partially out of its groove and the plastic (or whatever the material is) wasn't sitting even in the shock. On closer inspection, this is what I found... guessing I can get the part to repair it from QA1 - hopefully by the time I get home this weekend. Doesn't appear to be any damage to the shock itself or to the bearing, just the plastic piece.
PicsArt_1380504497501.jpg
PicsArt_1380504440631.jpg


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6070 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: September 30, 2013 11:13AM

Pitfalls of "race only" parts on the street.

Jim


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: rficalora
Date: September 30, 2013 02:42PM

QA1 doesn't sell direct, but they put me in touch with a shop in San Antonio TX that rebuilds their shocks for racers. SRC Performance. They had the plastic type race spherical bearings as well as steel race spherical bearings that fit the 8400 series QA1 shocks. At $11/kit including the clips, I went ahead & ordered 4 kits to replace both upper & lower on both sides so I don't have to worry about any of the others failing either. The parts should be @ my house later this week.


kerbau53
Geoff Morton
Naples, FL
(109 posts)

Registered:
08/09/2010 10:27PM

Main British Car:
78 MGB Ford 5L

Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: kerbau53
Date: October 01, 2013 05:20AM

Rob,

QA1 has bushings for sale as well as the plastic/steel bearings. Did they suggest any to fit your applicatin?


tomsbad6
Tom Ahlstrom
Michigan
(129 posts)

Registered:
12/16/2012 03:16PM

Main British Car:
Triumph TR-6 347 Ford

Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: tomsbad6
Date: October 01, 2013 05:40PM

Speedway motors has QA one Carrera bushings of all sizes they are about 20 bucks


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6070 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: October 01, 2013 08:17PM

Got a link? Couldn't find it.

Jim


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
RE: Another shock failure...
Posted by: rficalora
Date: October 01, 2013 11:09PM

QA1 doesn't sell direct, but the place they referred me to is one of their resellers that rebuilds their shocks for circle & dirt track racers. Since they rebuild them, QA1 suggested they'd be a better source than Jegs or Summit since they'd likely have the parts in stock. Sure enough they did & had a few options to choose from. I ordered the spherical bearings with steel races to replace the steel bearings with plastic races that were in the shocks originally. Price for the spherical bearing with race & 2 clips was $11. So, to replace top & bottom on both front shocks is just $44. SPT Performance is in San Antonio. Their number is 830-537-5200. Guy I spoke to was named Chris.



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6070 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: October 02, 2013 10:04AM

I am interested in the bushings Tom mentioned if they are really bushings instead of spherical bearings.

Jim


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2120 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: mgb260
Date: October 02, 2013 12:42PM

Energy suspension has charts for dimensions of urethane bushings. Like used in radius rods.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3150 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Another shock failure... WHY ?
Posted by: roverman
Date: October 09, 2013 12:02PM

Please, Yes or No... can QA-1's be use to limit squash and dangle travel ? I thought QA-1 stated otherwise ? Cheers, roverman.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6070 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: October 09, 2013 12:45PM

They have no interior snubbers. So you need an external bump stop and if you plan to jump it, limit straps.

Jim


302GT
Larry Shimp

(219 posts)

Registered:
11/17/2007 01:13PM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GT Ford 302 crate engine

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: 302GT
Date: October 17, 2013 07:52AM

My Hoyle suspension kit came with GAZ coil over shocks. The bushings all failed within a few thousand miles, eventually John Hoyle got GAZ to send me an upgraded set of bushings, but these were not much better. Then the metal bushings supporting/guiding the shock shafts wore and led to a clicking noise. At this point I switched to QA1 shocks with the QA1 polyurethane bushings and have had no problems since then.

The Hoyle kit came with the purple Australian urethane bushings in the rear, and these were optional for the front. I have never had much success with urethane bushings, so I went initially for the MG V8 rubber bushings in the front. But the purple urethane bushings are excellent and have shown no wear or squeaking in 40,000 miles. I eventually put these in the front as well; I had to order them from Moss Europe. But now I see that Moss US carries these bushings. They are expensive, but well worth it.


tomsbad6
Tom Ahlstrom
Michigan
(129 posts)

Registered:
12/16/2012 03:16PM

Main British Car:
Triumph TR-6 347 Ford

Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: tomsbad6
Date: October 17, 2013 03:15PM

[www.speedwaymotors.com] these are what my Brillstein shocks run I have not had a problem with them yet although I'm very gentle in how I drive my car I never beat on it NOT

yes these are all steel they will make a very small clicking noise every now and then I have so many hime and joints in my car if I didn't hear that clicking noise I would think I was in somebody else's car a streetcar will never wear them out



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2013 03:20PM by tomsbad6.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: rficalora
Date: October 18, 2013 12:20AM

Tom, those look just like the replacements I got from the QA1 dealer near me. The only difference to what was in the shock originally is that the collor is steel where on the original it was a nylon type material.


WernerVC
Werner Van Clapdurp
Lynchburg, Va
(95 posts)

Registered:
09/06/2009 12:56PM

Main British Car:
MGB 1977 Rover 3.5

Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: WernerVC
Date: October 18, 2013 09:55PM

Hi Larry,
I see that you had trouble with the Gaz shocks. I also have the Hoyle front suspension but haven't mounted it on the car as I am restoring the rusty door sills. So before I get it on the road I should replace the bushings with the metal heim bushings ?
I do have the Australian bushings on the "A" arms where they connect to the cross member.
Do you have the Hoyle rear suspension also and how does that makes a difference ?
What about the handling in the front ?
Werner



302GT
Larry Shimp

(219 posts)

Registered:
11/17/2007 01:13PM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GT Ford 302 crate engine

authors avatar
Re: Another shock failure...
Posted by: 302GT
Date: October 19, 2013 08:58PM

Hi Werner;

There are other problems with the GAZ shocks that Hoyle uses. They are adjustable with one knob providing greater stiffness for both compression and rebound. For best results, shocks need to be soft on compression and stiff on rebound. Soft compression allows the tire to follow any bumps on the road easily, while stiff rebound keeps the suspension from oscillating after the tire has passed the bump. I found that when the rebound was right, the compression was way too stiff. This led to the car jumping sideways on bumpy corners. The QA1 single adjustable shocks have a fixed soft compression setting, and the adjustment only affects the rebound.

Another problem is that the Hoyle springs are much too stiff. I experimented (tried 275, 250, and 225 pound springs) and ended up with 200 pound/inch springs on the front as opposed to the 300 pound/inch springs which Hoyle supplied. I also installed drop spindles to maintain geometry with a lowered ride height (I have a rubber bumper front crossmember)

I do have the Hoyle rear suspension and it is excellent. Again, I changed to QA1 shocks and changed the springs from 300 pounds/inch to 225 pounds inch. 200 pounds per inch would work except there was too much drop under hard acceleration. I found it absolutely necessary to use a rear sway bar. I modified a 9/16 MGB front bar and mounted it on the bottom of the battery boxes. The sway bar provides an incredible improvement that can be felt even in relaxed driving. Rear camber is about -2 degrees.

The rear sticks so well that the front also had to be set to -2 degrees negative camber to avoid understeer. I use a 3/4 inch front sway bar which seems to work well. I also tried a 7/8 inch and a 1 inch bar, but the 3/4 is best.

I think that the car handles extremely well, but to be honest, you will find no evidence of this on the web site - I never do well in the autocross competitions because I just am not good at following the cones. On track days, I usually pass every car that I encounter, but there has never been a lap time measured for my car so I cannot claim that it really is any faster than other cars.

One major disadvantage to the Hoyle rear is that the differential is not as strong as what you could get in a live axle. I would not recommend using an engine any bigger than a Ford 302 (do not stroke it!) and do not use drag slicks. I would also be wary of drag racing the car because drag racing pavement has much higher traction than any street paving. But in 45,000 miles with my Ford engine the rear is holding up fine. I did break the original Hoyle axle shafts and replaced them with custom made chrome-vanadium shafts (about $400 for the pair, which is about what Hoyle charges for his). Note: Hoyle claims the differential is good for 400 hp, but I would think torque is the problem, not hp. I got the 1:343 ratio unit with the viscous limited slip and the limited slip unit is still working well.


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