Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Tires
Posted by: rficalora
Date: November 12, 2013 08:21PM

Ok guys, I need more traction. It's too easy to spin the tires in 1st, 2nd, & even 3rd. It's not uncontrollable, I'm not spinning them by surprise... I'm just not getting the power to the ground.

Current tires are 225/50/15 Falken ZIEX ZE-912's. UTQG = 360-AA-A.

Few performance tires in that size... others are
* BFGoodrich g-Force Sport (340-AA-A)
* Toyo Proxes 4 (300-AA-A)
* Pirelli P Zero (140-A-A)
* Toyo Proxes RA1 (100-AA-A)

Looking for good traction tires I can use as every day street tires - generally dry weather but in rain from time to time.

Anyone have personal experience with any of the above? What do you suggest?

Only other option I know of would be to replace my wheels (rear or all 4) with 17" to get other tire options -- but I like my current wheels & they'd be very expensive to replace.

I did research a little about widening my wheels -- a few companies do it & the extra width would go inboard which is where I'd need it. But, I've also read a few sites saying widening is a very bad idea as a hard sheering force could cause catostrophic failure at the weld. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3150 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Tires
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 13, 2013 05:53PM

Rob, You might consider testing the "current" durometer hardness, of your existing tires. Age has a way of increasing the hardness. Are your wheels steel/ or ? Less shear force on inside of wheel vs outside. As a long shot, you might consider lowering the front pivots, of your leaf springs ? This would allow more weight transfer, to the rear, when you need it most. Good Luck, roverman.


TR6-6SPD
Ken Hiebert
Toronto Ontario
(252 posts)

Registered:
04/23/2008 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1972 TR6 1994 5.7 L GM LT1

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: TR6-6SPD
Date: November 13, 2013 08:08PM

Rob,
If I were you, I'd start with the simplest option and that would be to choose a softer tire. I went from a 300 UTQG to a 140 UTQG and really appreciated the difference.
As far as keeping the wheels from spinning, that's all in the right foot.


74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1151 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: November 14, 2013 09:51AM

Rob when you were in town and rode in my car, my tires were 300 utqg!


IaTR6
Dennis Costello
Central Iowa
(183 posts)

Registered:
12/29/2007 02:53PM

Main British Car:
'73 TR 6 '97 Explorer 5.0

Re: Tires
Posted by: IaTR6
Date: November 15, 2013 12:59PM

Rob (actually anyone with the R200 diff.), Is the issue with the tires or the differential? As I understand it, the viscous system won't transfer more than ~ 15% of the torque to the wheel with the most traction. So, are you spinning one or both tires?
I had asked Richard Good about a clutch limited slip, and he has good reasons for not recommending them, but I just wonder if that would be a solution?
Thanks,
Dennis


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: rficalora
Date: November 15, 2013 02:00PM

Well, it was the ride with Calvin that got me realizing I could get way more out of my car with more traction. He has an R200S if I recall so don't think the viscous limited slip is my issue. He has more horsepower (ok, a lot more horsepower), but that shouldn't matter because he's clearly getting way more of it to the ground than I am. I could feel the accelleration way more in his car than mine -- Like I said, I can control my right foot (thank you very much Ken) to not spin them, but if I tried to accelerate as hard as Calvin did, all I'd get is smoke. Tells me I need more traction.

RE: one or both spinning - haven't had anyone behind me -- no one I knew anyway ;) -- but no doubt both are spinning.

Rear end ratio is 3.54 -- think that's the same as Calvin's. Transmission gears are: 3.53, 1.93, 1.33, 1.00, 0.68

I'm surprised 360 UTQC to 300 would make that much difference -- although I think Calvin's are 245's vs. my 225's so that's about 9% more contact area. Not sure if UTQC is linear; if so 360 vs. 300 would be another 17% improvement. Combined that's in the 25% range.

The BF Goodrich g-Force are double to cost of the Toyo's - anyone have experience with either of the Toyo's -- especially in the rain? Not performance driving in the rain - just want to be sure they'll be reasonably safe with conservative/defensive driving in rain.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1309 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: November 15, 2013 03:53PM

Hey Rob,
The UTQC ratings are set by the manufacturer and are pretty subjective.
So a direct comparison is a little sketchy at best.
I have had the Falkens on a couple of vehicles and been pretty happy with them.
They are a good general use tire but traction is certainly not their strong point.
The RA1's are a race tire and will give great traction and good wet handling (as long as the tread lasts).
But they will wear out very quickly and I wouldn't use them as a street tire.
The Goodrich Gforce and the Toyo P4 are going to be almost the same as the Falkens.
My choice would be the Pirelli P Zero or the Hankook Ventus R-S3.
Great traction and reasonable wear, decent wet handling.
Your rear suspension isn't really set up for straight line acceleration so some changes will benefit there as well.
Cheers
Fred



DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1309 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: November 15, 2013 04:20PM

Just an added note.
Make sure that your bodywork is protected.
The stickier tires will pick up road debris and fire it at your paintwork like a sand blaster.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: rficalora
Date: November 15, 2013 05:05PM

RE: Your rear suspension isn't really set up for straight line acceleration so some changes will benefit there as well.

Recognizing the car isn't intended to be a dragstrip car, are there things I can do to my existing IRS to improve traction?

RE: Pirelli P Zero & Hankook Ventus R-S3, looks like the Pirelli's come in 225/50/15 at about $280/tire. The Hankook's are only about $115/tire, but are an inch smaller diameter than my front tires -- thinking that won't look right but might have to see if my local tire shop will mount one so I can have a look.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1309 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: November 15, 2013 06:36PM

Sorry Rob,
didn't notice that the R-S3 wasn't available in a 50 series anymore.
Cheers
Fred


billymgb1000
bill gaulin
harrisville R.I.
(74 posts)

Registered:
11/30/2012 12:31AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB V8 LS1 5.3

Re: Tires
Posted by: billymgb1000
Date: November 15, 2013 06:59PM

Hey Rob I have bf Goodrich t/a's 215 60 r15 on the rear I kept the 3.90 rear but I put those traction bars you commented on and I can smoke my tires if I want but I can stomp this from a stop and the power goes to the road so good I am very happy with the set up hope you find the right combo for you good luck


74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1151 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: November 16, 2013 07:55AM

Rob,

Some thoughts here. When I went from 450lb spring rate to 600lb spring rate in the rear of my car + installing stiffer rate front shocks, and last was lowering the front of the car about an inch. That combo of changing stuff , greatly changed how my car handled + way better tracktion. Your car weights just about the same as mine does. I do know the Yokoahoma S Drive tires are a pretty sticky tire. I had BF Goodrich tires before and had crapy tracktion to almost being dangerous. Maybe the transfer of weight has something to do with is also.

Good luck finding the right combo. Your car is different that most because of the IRS. It's hard to setup like some other MG setup being a straight axle. Keep at it and you will find the right setup, but whatch out for whiplash once it hooks up right.


tomsbad6
Tom Ahlstrom
Michigan
(129 posts)

Registered:
12/16/2012 03:16PM

Main British Car:
Triumph TR-6 347 Ford

Re: Tires
Posted by: tomsbad6
Date: November 16, 2013 08:31AM

Hello it's me Tom's I don't know whether this tread should be called tires or traction I personally would label the tread rear suspension or set up as far as tires go in my opinion nitto Toyo and Yokohama are the best street tires money can buy traction in these little cars does not start with tires it ends up with tires it starts with motor mounts and movement is then goes to clutch low impact but still have enough grip it moves on from there and gets complicated the differential has to move equal and opposite the rotation of the motor it moves from there to rear suspension in an IRS car you cannot compare your car to Calvin's car that's like comparing a Hummer to a Volkswagen but since the topic is tires I will add my vote a good biting street tire not a drag tire I would choose the Nitto NT01 Or 555R

I would have tried the NT01 a long time ago if they made a size I could stuff under my car everybody says I should be happy with the way my car hooks but I'm not I have plans for big changes this year over the winter acceleration is like an addiction more you get the more you want

Calvin spit out a really nice name for this topic weight transfer that is a very interesting topic it's a nasty Catch-22 it takes traction to get weight transfer but it takes weight transfer to get traction?? Which comes first?

Here's a really good question ??? Can you ever just have too much horsepower I think that gets back to the addiction thing yep I am an addict my plans this winter are to take the old British buggy to 900 usable hp I have already started buying parts I must say Rob you always start interesting topics on here obviously you never stop thinking that's awesome



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 09:03AM by tomsbad6.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4121 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: November 17, 2013 08:57AM

Rob,

The Hankook R-S3 in a 225/45-15 is likely the best choice & will lower your car a bit. Gonna have to spring for all four.

Loved my Toyo RA-1s. At full tread (8/32"), they were rain tire for Spec Miata. I ordered mine shaved to 5/32" to reduce tread squirm for track days & our annual autox. Once they wore down from there, they went from scary to real scary in the rain. Awesome in the dry, though!

How you liking that 1st gear ratio? ;)


WedgeWorks1
Mike Perkins
Ellicott City, Maryland
(460 posts)

Registered:
07/06/2008 08:07AM

Main British Car:
1980 Triumph TR8 3.5 Litre Rover V8

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: WedgeWorks1
Date: November 17, 2013 06:43PM

Love my RS3s
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af242/wedgeworks/Targa%201980%20TR8%20Project/421396_2633274271392_1241466867_32101915_1214617798_n.jpg



rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: rficalora
Date: November 18, 2013 08:38PM

Given I can get a set of 4.of the Hankook's for the price of 2.of the Pirelli's I'm inclined to agree with Carl... if they'll fit. With 205/55's in the front I had slight tire rub on the outer sidewalls so I'm afraid 225's will be a problem even with the slightly smaller diameter.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1309 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: November 25, 2013 12:36PM

Check out the Jan. Hot Rod magazine.
They had a pretty good article on the tires that you are looking at.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4121 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: November 28, 2013 10:26AM

Quote:
With 205/55's in the front I had slight tire rub on the outer sidewalls so I'm afraid 225's will be a problem even with the slightly smaller diameter.

Likely, since the 225 has a 8.86" section width vs the 205s 8.07" width. Which means the outer sidewall will protrude by an additional 4/10".

Running any spacers up front that could be reduced in thickness? Quality, sticky tires that fit our cars is becoming quite difficult :(


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2740 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Tires
Posted by: rficalora
Date: November 28, 2013 03:47PM

No spacer up front. Have thin spacers in the rear but can't eliminate them as they were needed to keep my LCA's from rubbing the wheels. Have a conversation going with American racing to see if my wheels can be modified. Have also contemplated re-making my LCA's and uprights so they'll fit inside the 15" wheels. That would enable wider rear wheels... and possibly more backspace up front to fit the 225's better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2013 04:10PM by rficalora.


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(213 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Tires
Posted by: mstemp
Date: November 28, 2013 05:10PM

Rob,

The lack of 15" tires is the reason I went to 16". Trouble is the Yokohams AVS I have now ride hash. WIth your upgraded front and rear supsension that may not be an issue for you. Have you considered changing wheels?
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