Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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Rog
Roger Haber
Hartell Southern Alberta, Canada
(7 posts)

Registered:
06/20/2014 11:30PM

Main British Car:
1967 MGB Roadster Chevy 350

Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: Rog
Date: July 04, 2020 04:08PM

I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I am wondering what ball joints Ted used on his front suspensions. He told me once, and I forgot! I need to replace the boots on mine. I contacted Senneker by email and asked them, but they never got back to me. I also need some slightly heavier springs for my QA1 shocks as mine are screwed in quite far to achieve ride height.
2.5 inches of thread showing. Can anyone help with these questions?

Roger Haber
Hartell, Alberta
Canada


kstevusa
kelly stevenson
Southern Middle Tennessee
(947 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 09:37AM

Main British Car:
2003 Jaguar XK8 Coupe 4.2L DOHC/ VVT / 6sp. AT

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: kstevusa
Date: July 05, 2020 09:22AM

Roger, sent you an email with info on measuring the joints and getting Poly Boots. This showed up on our Jaguar Forums. Google __ball joint poly boots for xk8-- and click the link with Jaguar Forums. It will give several threads about getting boots from A/M sources. Hope this helps.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2694 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: rficalora
Date: July 05, 2020 02:16PM

I need to do the same on mine; one side is torn.

Roger, I've not researched the ball joints, but the hubs (at least the bearings) are Pontiac Fierro. Maybe the ball joints are from the same application?


kstevusa
kelly stevenson
Southern Middle Tennessee
(947 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 09:37AM

Main British Car:
2003 Jaguar XK8 Coupe 4.2L DOHC/ VVT / 6sp. AT

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: kstevusa
Date: July 05, 2020 03:39PM

The article I referenced were from a XK8owner who purchased his Poly boots off E-Bay from a vendor in Bulgaria. Took awhile but he was pleased. Also listed info how how to order along with measuring the 3 dimensions needed to order correctly. Jaguar Forums is not to be confused with Jaguar Forum, they are different.


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(309 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: July 05, 2020 11:28PM

Roger,

I believe that the uppers are Chevy Chevette, not sure about the lower ball joints though.

Bill


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3993 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 07, 2020 09:22AM

My understanding is that Fast Cars, Inc. is but a small division of Senneker Performance. They are primarily in the racing business & may be operating with a skeleton crew due to Coronavirus.

[www.sennekerperformance.com]


Rog
Roger Haber
Hartell Southern Alberta, Canada
(7 posts)

Registered:
06/20/2014 11:30PM

Main British Car:
1967 MGB Roadster Chevy 350

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: Rog
Date: July 07, 2020 10:01AM

Thanks Guys for all your responses. I can't believe it's this hard to get simple information. I emailed
Senneker a couple of times, and no answer. When I emailed Ted Judy answered immediately in spite of her situation.
Well hopefully someone will have the answer. Thanks again everyone, hope to see you in Auburn.
Roger



mowog1
Rick Ingram
Central Illinois
(1503 posts)

Registered:
10/17/2007 09:36PM

Main British Car:
1974.5 MGB/GT 3.9l Rover

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: mowog1
Date: July 08, 2020 10:31PM

I've found that repeated attempts through phone calls and e-mails is best.

When that fails...contact one of us here via a Private Message.

Magic can happen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2020 09:33AM by MGBV8.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2694 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: rficalora
Date: July 09, 2020 09:40AM

Speaking of magic, I reached out to Terry. He advised that the ball joints are:

Upper is k5292 ,. Lower is k 6273 (moog numbers)

And, in case your local auto parts place only knows how to find parts with year, make, & model, I looked on RockAuto and those correlate to the uppper & lower ball joints for a 1982 Chevy Chevette, 1.6L I4.

Putting it all together, here are the notes I have on serviceable parts on the IFS. Hope this helps.

Hub bearings - '84-88 Pontiac Fiero front hubs for bearings
-- Inner bearings - Timken L44649 (bearing) L446410 (race/cup)
-- Outer bearings - Timken LM1179 (bearing) LM11710 (race/cup)
-- Grease seal - National 1174; SKF 692447
Tighten spindle nut to 50 ft/lbs while turning hub; back nut off one full turn; tighten again while turning
hub to 10 ft/lbs; back nut 1/6 to 1/4 turn to align cotter pin.
Ball Joints - Chevy Chevette (e.g. 1982)
-- Upper: K5292 (Moog)
-- Lower: K6273 (Moog)
ALIGNMENT SPECS:
-- Camber: zero to 1/4 degree negative
-- Caster: 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 degrees positive (per FastCars; others recommend 4-1/2 degrees positive)
-- Toe: Toe In 1/32" to 1/16"


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3993 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 10, 2020 09:42AM

Thanks, Rob!


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(309 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: July 11, 2020 01:26AM

X2 thanks Rob!

BTW, is there a consensus for going with more positive Caster vs Fastcars recommendation?
Both of my washers are set for max positive caster which if memory serves me correctly is about 3 1/2 degrees.
Sometimes the steering feels a little light at highway speeds to me and I've thought about modifying the upper A-arm mount so I can add another washer to gain a little more positive caster.

Bill


TR6-6SPD
Ken Hiebert
Toronto Ontario
(248 posts)

Registered:
04/23/2008 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1972 TR6 1994 5.7 L GM LT1

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: TR6-6SPD
Date: July 11, 2020 10:43PM

Bill,
I fabricated new upper control arms moving the ball joint 7/16" rearward, giving me 6 degrees caster.
I don't have the car on the road yet but that's what I run on my TR6 and I like it

New UCA placed on top of old. 7/16" rearward:
IMG_3515.JPG


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(309 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: July 12, 2020 12:16PM

Thanks Ken, that looks good! Did you use chrome-moly, also did you have to fabricate a jig?

Bill


IaTR6
Dennis Costello
Central Iowa
(169 posts)

Registered:
12/29/2007 02:53PM

Main British Car:
'73 TR 6 '97 Explorer 5.0

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: IaTR6
Date: July 12, 2020 08:37PM

Ken,
I understand the movement of the upper ball joint rearward to increase caster, however I wonder about the lower.
The trunnion and lower control arms are connected by a straight pin, and the assembly lends itself to movement
in only rotation, but not side to side. It would seem attempting to move the upper pivot (ball joint) to the rear,
a bind would be introduced into the trunnion. I don't have any idea how to include a ball joint to the bottom of
the upright, but that would allow easy caster changes. Maybe there is enough flexibility in the trunnion connection
I don't see?
Thanks,
Dennis


74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1151 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: August 25, 2020 05:02PM

Dennis,

I believe talking with Ken awhile back, he made some tapered washers by the trunnion on both sides to accept the degree difference on the pin.



IaTR6
Dennis Costello
Central Iowa
(169 posts)

Registered:
12/29/2007 02:53PM

Main British Car:
'73 TR 6 '97 Explorer 5.0

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: IaTR6
Date: August 26, 2020 11:36AM

Calvin, Thanks, that explains it to me! I like reading about changes made by other owners,
even if i don't implement them myself. But, you can never tell!
Dennis


TR6-6SPD
Ken Hiebert
Toronto Ontario
(248 posts)

Registered:
04/23/2008 11:43AM

Main British Car:
1972 TR6 1994 5.7 L GM LT1

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: TR6-6SPD
Date: August 27, 2020 08:39AM

Bill Jacobson,
Sorry for the delay in replying.
No chrome-moly, just DOM.
As for a fabrication jig, yes, of sorts. I have a flat plate that I often build from. That, and some spacers kept things aligned.

IMG_3513.JPG

IMG_3514.JPG

Dennis Costello was asking about modifying the TR6 trunnion, which deserves a separate thread. I'll contact him via PM.


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(309 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: August 30, 2020 12:17PM

Thanks for the reply and pics Ken!

What I ended up doing was removing 3/32" from front of the tube where the upper A arm attaches. Then added a 3/32" thick washer to the caster adjustment washer stack. This moved the A arm back by 3/32" which yielded about a 3/4 degree change in caster.
My caster reading are right at 4 1/2 degrees now and I do like how the car drives.

One other mod that I made years ago shortly after I installed the front end, was to add a steering dampener from a Pontiac Fiero. I ran the dampener with the stock front end also and it does a good job of dampening road shock due to the wider wheels and tires that I run.
Edit: to see the other pics, you may have to click on the blue text above and below the pic.

Bill
Installed Fiero steering dampener on FastCars front end..jpg
fabricated mount for Fiero steering dampener.jpg
mount for Fiero steering dampener. Mount is threaded, set screw and lock tighted in place..jpg



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2020 12:30PM by MG four six eight.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3061 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: roverman
Date: September 17, 2020 02:27PM

" Torque spindle nut to 50 ft/lbs"- really ? Is it "possible' someone meant 50 in/lbs. ? Art.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2694 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Fast cars front suspension
Posted by: rficalora
Date: September 17, 2020 07:02PM

Art, you have to read the whole thing...

"Tighten spindle nut to 50 ft/lbs while turning hub; back nut off one full turn; tighten again while turning hub to 10 ft/lbs; back nut 1/6 to 1/4 turn to align cotter pin."

So the 50 ft lbs initial torque just seats the bearings. Less than 10 ft lbs when done. Not unlike MG where you tighten till the hub stops turning, then back off a 1/4 turn (at least that's how I recall going the stock MG).
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