Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

Hi All,

With the recent drop in the British Pound vs the dollar, I have been looking into the Hoyle Suspension vs the FrontLine Development replacement coilover suspension upgrades.. Does anyone have any thoughts on either of these or one vs the other?

I have been quoted:
- Front Coil Over Kit with Poly Bushes [1107.00 GBP. Shipping to USA 175.00 GBP] from Hoyle
- Front suspension kit: [934.50 GBP. Shipping to USA: 193.19 GBP] from FrontLine

One of the differences is that the Frontline kit appears to be aluminum. Not sure if there are other advantages of one vs. the other--or if there's another option I should be considering.

As an FYI, I will be putting these into my MGB-GT with a Buick 300 V8, so I assume I will have to modify the crossmember.

Thanks much,
Eric

No need to modify the crossmember for the 300 Buick. You CAN replace the rack mount with 2 piece shaft collars if you want for easier adjustability. If you do that, you can use the saddles from U-bolt type muffler clamps to adapt them to the crossmember. Cut those down and use a spacer to get the correct position. This allows easy rotation and lateral shift to align the pinion, especially useful when shifting the location of the lower end of the steering column and swapping to the small Borgeson U-joint or changing the pinion length. Any of which might be helpful for header clearance.

Jim

It might be helpful to know more about your plans.

Do you intend to lower your car's ride height from stock?

What size tires and wheels will you run? Will you space your wheels outboard to fill your flared (Sebring!) fenders?

How aggressively will you drive your car? Track days and autocrosses? Or is it more for comfort, car shows, and cruising?

How much do you already know (or care to know) about suspension design theory, geometry, etc., and tuning? I ask this last question because in my view these two suspensions enable further and more important suspension upgrades. I don't see them as complete solutions by themselves.

Thanks Jim and Curtis.

Curtis, in response to your questions: I might lower the car a bit, depending on exhaust pipe clearance and I intend to run wider wheels and tires (probably as wide as possible with the Sebring or other fender flares will allow--and 16" in diameter, likely wider in the rear than the front). I do not plan to race the car--I want it to be a comfortable road touring car that has good handling. And as an aside, I will probably add electric power steering, since my tires will be fairly big and wide. I am not in any way a suspension expert, which is the reason for comparing these two options--I've read that the Hoyle seems better than the Frontline for handling, but I'm guessing there are lots of opinions and different setups that will affect that. I considered the Fast Cars front setup, but the price is way more than I was hoping to spend. Also, I will run a custom four link rear suspension with a Ford 8" axle (I would have likely gone with IRS, but I already had the axle). I'm curious about what other upgrades you are suggesting might be possible or recommended? Thanks again.

The Fast Cars front suspension is pricey, but it is far & away better than either Hoyle or Frontline which still uses a kingpin vs ball joints.

IMO, none of them make enough of a difference for me to spend that kind of money. I do just fine with a tweaked stock setup.

There is a Timken "TSL" bearing type that I think has potential in being incorporated into the kingpin design, as it is sealed, would remove friction, and eliminate wear. I've not found a listing of the bearing sizes yet though.

Jim

These needle bearings replace the bronze thrust washers:

[www.ebay.ie]

Speedway Motors has bearings instead of bushings for early Ford and Chevy kingpins.

[www.amazon.com]

This is also interesting:

[www.mgexp.com]

Before writing more, I want to acknowledge that generalizations can be misleading because "handling" will vary widely due to many, many factors affecting it and our perception of it.

Quote:

The Fast Cars front suspension is pricey, but it is far & away better than either Hoyle or Frontline which still uses a kingpin vs ball joints.

IMO, none of them make enough of a difference for me to spend that kind of money. I do just fine with a tweaked stock setup.

+1

Just going by what's described on their websites, the Hoyle and Frontline upgrades actually are tweaked stock set-ups insofar as they aren't appreciably changing suspension geometry... unless/until you lower your car via their sexy coilover shock absorbers. When not operating near enough to the center of its designed-for range, the MGB suspension's bump & roll steer characteristcs are bad. You might try to mitigate this with stiffer springs and sway bar, and staying on smooth roads. This didn't work for me. You can reduce bump steer by bending the steering arms. (Legal disclaimer: bending steering arms isn't for novices! How far to optimally bend them? Depends on the installation.)

IMHO, replacing the stock MGB stub axles with "dropped spindles" is a more elegant way to lower an MGB more than ~1" than fitting shorter springs or adjusting spring perchs. You can do this whether you fit Hoyle, Frontline, or neither. (Disclaimer: cutting/welding to "drop" a spindle is not a novice job.) With dropped spindles fitted, you'll definitely need to correct bump steer... but dropped spindles raise the suspension's Roll Center (a.k.a. Instantaneous Center. Better geometry: less roll torque, better camber change effect, etc.) Digression: there are two schools of thought with regard to MGB dropped spindles. Some people leave the kingpin stock, while others advocate extending its length with mor and different geometric effects.

What's really important, besides geometry? One answer is "unsprung weight". It's hard to compare that without buying the suspensions and weighing their components. Hoyle at least talks about unsprung weight on the website page for their suspension. Also, though not part of their suspension kit, Hoyle offers aluminum hubs in lieu of steel. 1.5# weight reduction per side! Not cheap, but appealing to me.)

Carl brought up the Fast Cars suspension. You might like to read more about that here: [www.britishv8.org] or [www.britishv8.org]

For more on dropped spindles and other MGB suspension tweaks... there are many of interesting nuggets in the photo captions of [www.BritishRacecar.com].

Sure that wasn't 15 lbs per side Curtis? At least if you also do the upgraded brakes to aluminum calipers and ventilated rotors. Aluminum wheels also help and tire weights can easily vary by 10 lbs or so.

Jim

just hubs purchased separately...



"H17 (7075) Aluminium (1.80kg) rather than Steel (2.47kg)" each

I see. Very nice. I think I was able to remove close to 10lbs with hubs, calipers, aluminum hats and light weight ventilated rotors but that's been awhile back. Those calipers are pretty heavy. Hard to say how much difference it made as other mods were also made. As far as I know the biggest change possible is in going from wires to forged/spun wheels. IIRC that can be something close to a 20lb difference.

Jim

Thanks all for the advice--lots to think about, for sure.

Speaking of hubs, I did purchase (some time ago) a big brake kit which has aluminum hubs. One of the hubs was damaged a bit in shipping, but it was a closeout, so I accepted it as it was the last one left. Any ideas from looking at the damage whether I can live with it or will I need to TIG weld it and have it re-turned on this (the back) side? The damage I'm referring to is on the inside of the hub--the damage on the outside, I'm assuming is cosmetic. Not having taking apart front end any time recently, I can't remember what goes where.

Looks pretty cosmetic to me.

Jim

Cosmetic, but not pretty. :)

Eric, What hub is that? Wilwood Camaro?

I made my set of front hubs and did it so that the hats slip on over the wheel studs from the outside so that I can swap rotors without removing the hubs. Most of the hubs I've seen on MGBs aren't like that, you have to remove the entire assembly to remove the rotor.

Jim

Jim (Nichols),

These hubs are custom aluminum from Bill Guzman: [www.classicconversionseng.com]




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2022 12:56PM by Airwreckc.