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63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

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Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: August 19, 2014 06:23PM

Hello all,

I started rewiring my car and gather some parts that I forgot to take off my parts car. It is always the little thinks that bits you! (should have made a list first). Anyway, Before I wire anything I was drawing out a scematic and how I wanted to wire things up. The parts list for my parts car (90 Lincoln MK VII) says that I need a fender mounted Starter solenoid and everything I read says that Ford used them up until the mid to upper 90's. So I went to the old picknpull today and grabbed a couple of things I need, However, when I got home and was looking at my car it looks like the starter on my car has a starter solenoid on it, which is confusing me. I feel like this is something I should know, but I would rather ask first before I make a mistake. Can somebody set me staight on which is which and what I need. The first picture is the fender mounted starter solenoid, and the second is the starter mounted to my engine.
Starter Solenoid #1.jpg
Starter #2.jpg


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(575 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

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Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: danmas
Date: August 19, 2014 07:36PM

With the starter you have, you don't need the fender mounted solenoid. Connect the main battery cable to the top lug of the starter solenoid, and the white/red wire from the ignition switch to the spade lug.


flyinlow
Kevin .
Elko NV
(84 posts)

Registered:
01/25/2011 04:52PM

Main British Car:
1964 Spitfire Ford 5.0

Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: flyinlow
Date: August 21, 2014 05:56PM

During that time period ford had both solenoids, the main positive battery cable connected to the starter and the fender mounted solenoid acted as a relay ensuring that full battery voltage was delivered to the start circuit of the starter mounted solenoid.
You can eliminate the fender mounted solenoid if you choose to but it does contribute (at least in theory) to a slightly more dependable starting system and provides a convenient location to connect other positive circuits.
I will be eliminating the remote solenoid on mine.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5853 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

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Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 21, 2014 06:34PM

If I remember right, Back in the early days after the direct acting starter button on the floorboard, Ford used a starter that had a metal arm which was pulled into a slot in the case when current went to the starter. This was attached to an arm that pushed the bendix into engagement with the ring gear. The firewall mounted solenoid was nothing but a big relay to switch the current.

Once they switched over to the solenoid type bendix actuator it was a small matter to begin switching the main current there as well, at which point the remote solenoid became redundant.

Jim


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(575 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: danmas
Date: August 21, 2014 07:12PM

Having a remote solenoid where it is not required only adds one more set of contacts in the main power feed. At best, that won't hurt; at worst, it'll add an unwanted voltage drop

It does add a convenient power take-off point, but it also add one more convenient bare post to drop a wrench on.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

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Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: August 21, 2014 09:02PM

As far as I know.
The only reason that relay remained when Ford went to the more conventional starter mounted solenoid.
Was to reduce the load on the very weak neutral safety switches.
It was cheaper to just keep using the relay rather than redesign the switch.
The relay is handy to have as a junction point and to bump the motor over for valve adjustments etc.
But it is ugly, not really needed and just another failure point.
So it's really your call Nick.
It'll work either way.

Cheers
Fred


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: August 22, 2014 06:19PM

Thanks for all the Replies!

From what I gather it is not needed, but can be used if I want to. However, I was planning on using the nuetral safety switch that is in the transmission as part of the starting circuit. So would it be better to use the extra solenoid to help reduce the voltage against the switch, The last thing I want to due is have to pull the transmission to replace a faulty switch. Or would it be better to install a switch on the clutch pedal? So many good answers, Leaves me asking new questions! If it was your car how would you wire up the stater, remote solenoid, neutral safety switch? Answers help greatly appreciated! I am getting ready to wire my car up for a test fire, so i am wanting to complete this ASAP!



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5853 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 22, 2014 07:01PM

Your original circuitry had a starter relay that took the solenoid load off the key switch (and interlock switch on later cars). I believe the AAW kit has a starter relay in the power block, which will be fine to power the solenoid.

Jim


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: August 22, 2014 09:16PM

Jim,

You are correct my circuit does go through a starter Interupt relay, I Have the complete wiring diagrams for the lincoln MK VII, The Starter switch wired through a Starter interupt relay then through the Neutral safety switch and to the starter. If I use this will it be able to take enough of the load off the neutral safety switch that I will not have to worry about the switch?


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: August 22, 2014 09:27PM

If thats the case Nick,
You will have redundancy, after redundancy, after redundancy, after redundancy, after redundancy, (slap to the face) Uhhm.. you don't need the extra relay.

Cheers
Fred


63BlueMGB
Nick B
Kansas City, Mo.
(96 posts)

Registered:
01/16/2011 05:17PM

Main British Car:
1963 MGB

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: 63BlueMGB
Date: August 22, 2014 09:53PM

I know i am probably just asking this question again, but just want to make sure I wire it correctly. So Wire from switch, to starter interupt relay to neutral safety switch to (without remote solenoid) starter, or just wire from switch to neutral safety switch to starter solenoid (without remote solenoid and starter interupt relay). My wiring diagram show all of this wired up and that is what is confusing me. What is needed and what is not as far as redundancy goes. If it was your car what would you do and why? I am sorry this easy solution is not easy I just want to understand something before I do it.

After Rereading and Rereading the post If I wire the Switch to the Starter Interupt Relay to the Neutral safety to the solenoid. I think I should be fine. I think I have been over thinking this and following to many wiring diagrams which have got my wires crossed. Thanks to all the replies, I really appreciated it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2014 10:10PM by 63BlueMGB.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5853 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: August 23, 2014 10:10AM

Nick, what you are trying to do is switch the heavier currents with the heavier contacts. So, you use the built-in starter solenoid to switch direct battery power but the solenoid is also big and heavy so you use the relay to switch that current. That drops the power to what is required to switch the relay and that isn't much, about 1/3 amp. All your switches, interlocks and such get put into this control circuit so the switches will last.

Jim


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(575 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Starter Solenoid Question
Posted by: danmas
Date: August 24, 2014 01:32PM

Nick,

FWIW, here's how I wired my neutral safety switch:
Neutral safety switch.jpg


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