Race Cars and Motorsports

British V8 reader Phillip Leonard is currently building an MG RV8 to compete in the SCCA "GT2" class. (A recent amendment to the SCCA rules now makes these cars eligible.)

To complete the car, Phillip is searching the world for fiberglass versions of the RV8 body parts... or even steel MG RV8 panels from which molds could be made.

Please help if you can!

Get in touch with me - or with Phillip if you can help in any way at all! (To contact Leonard directly, use this message board's "private message" system. His UserID is "Phillip G".)

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For your enjoyment, I'm attaching snapshots of the race car under construction (as it looked in November).

"British V8 reader Phillip Leonard is currently building an MG RV8 to compete in the SCCA "GT2" class. (A recent amendment to the SCCA rules now makes these cars eligible.)"

Would that also make an MGB V8 roadster eligible?

As I understand the rules, the car needs to "look like" an RV8... so the MGB V8 roadster would need a bunch of bodywork. (It would also need the appropriate safety equipment, etc.) Curiously, it seems that the rules limit displacement to 3.5L, even though the production cars were 3.9L.

I understand they've also opened up the class to MGB GT V8.

Carl,

Officially, the Competition Racing Board (CRB ) of the SCCA for 2008 recognized the MGB GT V8 and the MG RV8 as eligible for competition in the Grand Touring 2 (GT2) class.

To be competitive, both cars (B GT V8 & RV8) will need extensive modification, especially with the 2,280 minimum lb spec. The weight limit spec is complicated for ..... the 2,280 minimum weight spec is WITH the driver aboard and driver weighed WITH the car at Tech at the end of the race. It is best to assume that the driver will average 200lb in weight to always meet minimum weight at Tech.

Therefore the GT2 MG must be built with 2,080 lb minimum weight always in mind. Weight dictates everything in the project.

In building the RV8 with weight in mind (and with the extensive full rollcage that extends into the engine compartment and into the fuelcell/trunk area) the rollcage is constructed of light weight aircraft steel (which is sometimes referred to as Chrome Molly).

The rollcage in GT2 cars is a work of art and you do not want to know the cost.

With the above in mind, the RV8 is easier to meet weight spec at Tech than is the MGB GT V8.

Thank you for your input into this project.

Phillip Leonard

What discrimination!

An RV8 is mainly an MGB with fancy fenders all around. If they start making 'glass RV8 panels, maybe I'll glue some on my 'B. ;)

We'll be rootin' for ya, Phillip!

Carl,

You are exactly right that the RV 8 IS just a B with fancy fenders.

I spoke with Malcom Gammons today and he kindly explained to me other differences between the B roadster and the RV 8.

It turns out that the suspension and the brakes - front and rear - are very different. I am trying to locate upgraded front and rear brakes and thought I could use upgrades from the RV8 disc rotors. No can do.

Since I am still using much of the B front and rear suspension - primarily front B suspension spindles and hubs and rear B banjo housing axles and hubs - I discovered via (Malcolm) Gammons that the upgraded RV 8 front and rear brake rotors will not work on the B front and rear hubs. A Ford 9 inch rear axle w/ disc brakes will be another mod down the road.

Gammons pointed out and reminded me that the rear brakes really are of very little use in road racing (but much more so in their rally cars). I know from racing my SCCA BGT that the rear disc upgrade is not really of much help, other than the simplicity of getting rid of the rear drums and the problems drum brakes present in maintenance.

Our SCCA race team has found an easy upgrade for the rear brakes on the B banjo housing using stock Saab rotors (they literally bolt on to the B rear hubs ) and we use the smallest Wilwood calipers w/ the Saab rotors.

These B brake/suspension modifications for SCCA road racing are more complicated than at first appearance. Forced upon the builder is .....pedal box modifications (Tilton pieces), brake cylinder sizes and remote mounts, stainless brake lines and hoses and adjustible controls. Racing brake fluids are crucial. And some drivers even want to adjust brake bias during the race.

Road racing is so different than circle track racing - in so many ways.

But the RV8 is just a B with fancy fenders - and I am still trying to find a source for fiberglass front end body parts - hood, fenders and front grill/spoiler and headlite surround parts.

Carl,Thank you for any ideas and advice on this project.

And thank you Malcolm Gammons of Brown and Gammons for your kindness in taking so much of your afternoon and time from your race shop in talking with this Yank about a new USA SCCA GT2 car class.

Phillip Leonard

Curtis,

We received our Permanent Number - 05 GT 2 - from our Midwest Division SCCA for 2008 !




Your MiDiv Permanent Number request has been received.



The number issued you for 2008, in the race group indicated, is...

05 GT2

_x_ In the Bigbore race group (BP DP EP GT1 GT2 GT3 AS ST T1 SP GTA)

___ In the Smallbore race group (GTL FP GP HP SRF Legends)

___ In the Street Tire race group (T2 T3 SSB SSC SM)

___ In the Wings & Things race group (FA FB FC FE FM FS ASR CSR DSR S2)

___ In the Small Formula race group (FF FV F500)

___ In the Improved Touring race group (ITR ITS ITA ITB ITC ITE IT7)



Phillip G

Racing fans,

Remember the CanAm car with the gokart wheels and the CanAm car with 8 gokart wheels ?

Calculation request here.

WHAT DO VERY SMALL WHEELS (GOKART SIZE) DO TO UNI-DIRECTION, STRAIGHT LINE VELOCITY OF A RACE CAR ?

DOES IT ALL DEPEND UPON TRANSMISSION GEARING AND FINAL DRIVE ?

WHAT CHOICE DOES THE BUILDER MAKE - WHEN USING SMALL WHEELS - FOR THE FINAL DRIVE RATIO ? UP OR DOWN ? FOR INSTANCE, FINAL DRIVE RATIO OF 2.00 OR 3.00 OR 4.00 OR 5.00 ?

Phillip G

Philip, when conisdering tire diameter versus vehicle speed and gearing it's much simpler to use a calculator such as this one from the GM F body site which I find helpful. Determine the diameter or circumfrence of your tires and the engine rpm you want to run in each gear and plug them in, hit the calculate button and you have a good suggestion for a rear axle ratio. Basically the smaller the tire diameter the lower numberically the axle ratio would be. [www.f-body.org]
I'd plan on reaching the maximum 5th gear rpm near the end of the longest straight on most tracks and then gear for that, using the intermediate gears for the tighter portions of the track. There may be some situations where you'd want to run a taller or shorter gear that would give you better times in the "twisties" and sacrifice some top speed on the straight, it just depends on the track and your transmission gear ratios.
You can plug in various tire sizes and see what happens to the gear ratio or rpm as those change.
Note the upper drop down menu, there are a lot of common 5 speed ratios already there so if your transmission still has the original gears you can save yourself some time by using the menu.
By the way, congratulations on your number assignment.

Now for the reality of the actual speed. Top speed may be improved due to lower frontal area because of the smaller wheels, but they had to add extra tires due to the inherent smaller contact patch with the smaller tires, so more tires were needed to maintain the road holding in cornering. That added complexity and weight to the car, all in all it didn't seem to be worth the effort or they would have taken over racing design.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2008 03:47PM by V6 Midget.

Bill,

Thank you very much for the GM F Body site for doing the calculations.

I plan to get right on to that.

I have a great offer on a set of alloy 14x8 inch MGB wheels - used - that might be of help initially on my MG RV 8 GT 2 project.

I already have two sets of alloy 15x7 MGB wheels - and could use them for the initial set up of the MG RV 8, but hope to go to 16x8 wheels or even 16x10 wheels later. It's the $$$$$.

What do you think about the set of allow 14x8 wheels ?

I would value your opinion.

regards,

Phillip G

Philip, the wheel size isn't all that critical except for the limitations it might place on brake size and tire selections. You really need to take a look at the race tire suppliers and see what sizes are available in what compounds. As you said before the coming thing seems to be 16" wheels and tires, so finding a good selection in 14" might be a problem. It already is getting that way in street tires. I don't know if you prefer Goodyear, Hoozier, or some other brand of tire, but there should still be some selection in 14". Plenty of selection in both 13" and 15" as these are still very commonly used tire sizes.
Of course if you hope to be fast right out of the box then you'll probably have to step up for the newer design tires, but if you just want to get some quality seat time in for a season then you might really get a deal on a size that is being phased out and just use them to develop the car, ironing out the bugs until you're ready to take advantage of the added traction the larger tires and wheels might bring.
You're more than welcome to give me a call or contact me off the board if you want to chat and get into more detail. My experience is limited, but I'll gladly share anything I can. You can reach me at bkyoung@planetkc.com and I'll post my phone number if you contact me there.

Bill,

I just lost a lengthy message to you on the RV 8 project. Poof. Gone. So sorry.

Hopefully, we can get together to talk about this GT 2 project. I would really appreciate your input.

Phillip G

Gang,

Much progress has been made on the MGRV 8 SCCA GT2 racer.

The Rover 3.5 Rover race motor is near completion. GM T5 transmission setup is complete w/rear suspension & brakes.

All RV8 fibreglass has arrived from England. We hope to make RV 8 fibreglass molds of the body panels for in the case of racing accidents. RV8 Headlite cowls and the RV8 grill are made from unobtanium, and, too, will be backed by fibreglass molds.

Next series of build photos will be posted in August. Testing planned in October '08. Project is on schedule and close.

Phillip G

I'm looking for any updates on this project, did it get done?, has it been on the track?, will you be at any races yet this year?

Rodger

SCCA racing fans,

The MG RV8 SCCA GT2 race car is nearly finished.

We plan track testing at MAM (MidAmerica Motorsports), near Omaha, in early Nov. '09, with a full national SCCA racing season in 2010. Some sponsorship has been secured for the first SCCA racing year - "British Numismatics".

All bodywork is completed and the RV8 design makes for a great looking GT2 racer. Unfortunately, conversion from righthand drive to lefthand drive was required by the SCCA GCR (General Conpetition Rules). We have made molds of all the RV8 original body parts, and the new (all fibreglass) RV8 body is extremely lightweight - total weight under 1,900 lbs. Ballast will be added for the GT2 racing class - (2,280 lbs. required with all fluids and driver, GCR required).

Major induction restrictions by the SCCA GCR - 38mm SIR, (Single Inlet Restriction) - makes for a major horspower limitation on the 3.5 Rover powertrain (3.5 displacement also required by the GCR).

More update after the first test track session.

r'grds,

Phillip G

Racing Guys,

The latestst photo of the SCCA GT2 RV8 I posted is simply a snapshot I made at the body shop several weeks before the body work completion.

The photo might present interpretation concerns of the "look" of the RV8.

FYI

The photo may appear to be distorted as to the width of the RV8 front end.

The paint work will be completed after track testing with all the body panels separated from the chassis. All body panels are dzus removeable.

The front fibreglass bumper, grill & wings in the last posted photo have been extended from the molds of the original RV8 body panels. The fibreglass copies made from the molds of the original body parts then had to be lengthened/crafted to accommodate the additional 4 inches of flare of the front left & right wings - or 2X4 or 8 inches of extra wing flare and the front bumper to allow for the much larger wheel/tire combination allowed by the SCCA GCR for the GT2 class. The 16X8 wheel size seems to be the "choice" for the GT2 class.

I will post side and rear photos of the GT2 RV8 body work soon. Accommodations for the doors, rear flares, boot and rear tail lites are remarkable craftsman's work by the body shop. You will find the the rear of the RV8 greatly flared and SCCA winged and yet still have the original look of the RV8.

The new, original RV8 (Thank you Ron Davis, ex Rover competition director) rear tail lites are now unobtaniam and so we have made molds from the originals and have crafted "wrapped" fibreglass copies for racing. From 4 feet back they look exactly like the originals - fine for racing accidents. (The RV8 original rear tail lites and fibreglass copies are a very complete story all by themselves.)

More photos to follow soon.

Keep them on the track.

r'grds,

Phillip G






Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2009 11:24PM by Phillip G.

Quote:

I will post side and rear photos of the GT2 RV8 body work soon.

...

More photos to follow soon.

I can't wait to see more photos! Thank you for sharing news of this VERY, VERY exciting project.