MG Sports Cars

What is the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to a V6 conversion using their kit?

I have used one of the early kits and found it to be very well engineered and complete. I particularly appreciated the instruction booklet that Bill included with it. Naturally, you may have to modify certain portions of your engine bay and tranny tunnel. But, that would be true of almost any engine conversion. Some folks suggested using a hydraulic throwout bearing, but, Glenn Towery was able to use my existing slave cylinder on the V6 T5, allbeit with a little hammer work on the tranny tunnel. We did have to modify the steering shaft, using a rubber bumper shaft, because the chrome bumper knuckle rubbed on the header. I understand that issue may have been solved with the new headers.

Jason:

I just recently installed Bill's conversion kit on my 79. I bought it in April and got it all installed within a couple of months (working on weekends). That included the time necessary to pull the engine and tranny from the donor car (83 s-10 with a 2.8l), fix up the engine, figure out I had the wrong tranny, find the right tranny and install it in my car and get it running. Still doing some clean up (electrical issues, getting the gauges right and trying to figure out an overheating issue).

Pros: the kit is well made and the instructions from Bill are exceptional. More importantly, the support I received from Bill and from people on this forum was invaluable. That was worth the cost of the kit itself.

Cons: I am not an accomplished mechanic (I have rebuilt a couple of engines, worked with a lot of MGs, but have never done a engine and tranny swap and have been too spoiled by new cars for 2 decades), but the actual swap and installation was easy; the hard part was/has been the details. The exhaust, carb, air filter and gauges work after the swap have been more time-consuming, expensive and equivocal that I anticipated. Plan ahead and read more than I did and you will be fine. Also, while I love the way my car is running, if I had to do it all again, I would have gone with a bigger engine. Still. It runs like a champ and doing 90 on I-15 to Vegas in an MG can't be beat.

Bottomline: The kit is well worth the money. The conversion is well worth it, but it is harder than I anticipated. If I can help with any specific questions, let me know.

I just picked up a 2nd GT and have 2 2.8 motors. I would be building it for my wife to drive if I decide to build it, I will still build my GT with more HP.

I found a place in MO that builds performance 2.8s and their hp rating is somewhere around 180 hp which I think would be good for her. My other issue is that she does not drive stick or have any desire to learn. I would have to put a 2004R in it as it is a little smaller than the 700R4, he issue is wether or not it will easily fit and if it is a direct bolt to the 2.8. I know there were autos behind them not sure what was behind them though.

The 2004r was a dual pattern tranny and so would bolt up to the BOP engines as well as the SBC. If your engine uses the small GM corporate pattern it is not a direct bolt on. Very good transmission choice however, if it can be made to work. The gear ratios are much better suited for our purposes.

JB

My concern more was how it would fit in the tranny tunnel.

Speedway Motors has an adapter for small V6 to GM large automatics.

Like all American transmissions it has a wide pan which makes it a tight fit in any LBC. However the usual culprits requiring attention are accumulators and such sticking out to the sides. The 2004r isn't too bad in this area but some tunnel mods may be required. The 700r4 doesn't fit without cutting, but you may get by with bumping a couple spots. I just looked in the photo section and oddly there doesn't seem to be a car with that transmission so no help there. But I had bought one before deciding to go with a Lexus tranny and I believe it'll be a pretty good fit.

JB

To switch topics a little, I would want to run 15" wheels, I am guessing 6" wide would be a decent fit with something like a 205/50 in the front and a 225/50 in the rear (tire size subject to change). Considering I do not want to add flares, what would be the recommended offset? I would also be lowering it maybe 2 inches, would have to wait till I get the wheels and tires on to decide how much.

Jason, To avoid un-needed tunnel mods, you may want to consider Aisian/Warner 30-40 od. ?To spot the "pre-computer controlled", make sure it has a "TV"- throttle valve cable on pass side.Trans features a removable BH,Toyota V6 Celica/trucks, Volvo, etc. Good Luck, roverman.

Art is right, the Asian trannies are a really good fit. I have the AA80E in my car right now and you won't be going any bigger than that. It's snug but required no bumping. The pan is nice and narrow. Photos are in the 340 thread. Also I think Jim Nichols is using a Jeep version of the Asian. we've barely scratched the surface of what can be done with these and what adapters/bellhousings are available, but I think all but the 80 have removable bellhousings using a round pattern. Megashift for shifter control. Very good transmissions with excellent shift characteristics and good gear ratios.

For your offset you are just going to have to do some measuring. The amount of variation in the bodies and mountings mean that to run big tires you need to know the measurements for the exact car.

JB

The motor mounts for the 2.8, it looks to be a bolt in deal, are these bolted to pre existing holes or do you have to decide where you want to put the engine and drill your own?

They are a bolt in deal. The only work is balancing the engine, and that is a simple case of adjusting the nut.

I was looking in the engine compartment yesterday and it looks like they would use the same mounts as the front crossmember. When you say balancing, do you mean side to side?

I meant getting the angle of the engine correct.

Getting a little closer to starting on this. I sent Classic Conversions a message asking a few questions. I will have to wait till they get back to me to decide for sure to order the kit.

"They are a bolt in deal. The only work is balancing the engine, and that is a simple case of adjusting the nut"


The motor mounts are adjustable. This feature allows for pinion angle adjustment and to set the engine level from side to side to side.

We found that for every 10 kits we sold one or two MGB;s were involve in an accident and the frame rails were off just a bit to offset the leveling of the engine. Customer needed to use shims.

The new motor mounts allows you to set the engine level and angle of the engine. It is like a custom fit installation.

The adjustment is done via a nut in the motor mount.

I also have a spread sheet that gives you everything you need for the swap and can help you to plan the swap and keep track of the cost.

Some may need to spread sheets, the actual one and one for your wife LOL LOL

As with everything in this world, its a mixture of good and not so good.
Bill is helpful, the stuff does sort of work, but it is expensive for what you get.
Bill was a pioneer and put together a set of mounts so people had something to start with.
Bill, like a lot of pioneers, seems to get something to work, with little care for cost or refinement.
Times have changed, advances made, and now many people have provided more and more finished
ways and information on the V6 conversion than Bill. My hat is off to Bill for his contribution to getting the ball rolling,
and the multitude of hobbyists who have made further contributions.

It is worthwhile to be mindful that there are a lot of things besides the kit which are needed to do the conversion, and those can be expensive items, especially if bought separately and new. Also, several expensive items are offered which are completely unnecessary.

My experience:

I bought one Guzman kit for the first v6 conversion I did (about 6 yrs ago). I had to rework some of the parts. Quality problems and troubles typical of a pioneer's design. I eventually discarded all the parts.

I have several MGB's I wanted to make into BV6's, so I took the time to make my own design motor mounts and find several better and less expensive ways to do the conversion.

example:
I use an s10 bell housing so the transmission stands upright and the s10 slave is inboard, so no HTOB is required. It also uses the much lighter s10 flywheel. I buy my exhaust manifolds elsewhere. I make the rear tranny cross support. The total cost for this route is less than half the cost of Bill's kit. It takes me a day to make a complete setup, and material cost is about $60. The mounts I make can't sag with time, the engine height can be changed, and the motor usually sits slightly lower (a good thing). I make a simple mount for the alternator which puts it on the passenger's side. It is configured so the water pump can be spun either way.

I found that there are many things besides the mounts which take time and/or money in order to do the conversion, and there are a lot of inexpensive alternatives to what some people have offered or recommended to get those things done. Vendors and people with more money than they know what to do with document a plethora of needlessly expensive ways to do the conversion.

examples:
Mustang ('67 v8) radiator fits in, and costs about $135. The fancy aluminum ones are upwards of $300 and no better (if as good). I use an inline High pressure pump and dont modify or replace the gas tank. You can get a fancy gas tank for $600 or so, if shiny appeals to you. Bottom line: it's just a gas tank.

I buy a whole donor car (pref shabby and less than 125K miles) so the drivetrain essentials and nearly all the extra bits are bought at a low price and I see working.( I have found many 2.8's, 3.1's and 3.4's still in service and running well at 200K miles,
I feel spending thousands for a refreshed or 'crate' drivetrain is a waste of money for most people) . My $1000 purchase gives me nearly everything I need, saves me hundreds in extra's, and still gives me back a few hundred at the scrap yard. If you want, you can spend several thousand dollars for a motor and transmission....

I use the S10 setup so it is more serviceable and less expensive. It only takes a $4 napa union to mate to the MG hydraulics, and there is no HTOB to buy, install (that can be problematic) or have to take the drivetrain back out to service it when it fails. It takes the light s10 flywheel, which is more appropriate for this application than the big, heavy camaro one. All the parts were designed to work together.

I make the mounting parts from 1/4" steel plate stock (not 5/16) so they are stiff and durable. The design lets me alter the height of the motor in a simple way. These work with guzman or BCC manifolds. These are relatively easy to install, even with the manifolds in place.

I install the motor with fuel injection. It's cheaper and the motor runs better that way.The motor was designed for fuel injection, and you ought to use a different cam when you retrofit a carburetor. It is not particularly difficult to install fuel injection, since the wiring diagrams and all that are on the internet and elsewhere (haynes amanuals, etc.). (Besides, the wholeefi setup is in the donor car), and its a matter of transplanting.

I assemble the drivetrain on the ground and check out the clutch actuation, add the fittings (oil pressure, hydraulic line from clutch slave, etc) before I try to put it into the car. If it's a T5 transmission, I remove the extra bumps on the bottom of the tailshaft so it can go into place more easily, then dress the areas which need to be displaced so the drivetrain will fit into the space. . My first attempts are without the exhaust manifold or motor mounts, and the dressing is done with a ball peen hammer a little at a time. The top of the tunnel is also raised a bit.

Finally, I trial fit it all together, and once it goes in smoothly and satisfactorally, I remove it all so I can paint and finish the engine bay and edge the surrounding areas. I then do a final assembly. This gives a pretty result.












I posted copies of the mount design on the mgexperience site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 07:41AM by scot abbott.

I think Bill continues to refine his products. For instance, a new motor mount design which is easily adjusted for height and such.

Jim