MG Sports Cars

I'm hoping Steve, Carl and Max will give you their impressions of the weekend once they have rested. In the meantime I'll write up a report.

Steve came in on Thursday and for the next couple of days we busied ourselves with foraging and the braking system as well as properly securing the wheels. We got the correct lug nuts eventually, and Keyston/Marmon gave us some square tubing. There were modifications needed to mount the master cylinder that included a cut to the bulkhead shelf for brake arm clearance (we rounded the edge over for the 'proper' appearance) drilling of mounting holes, and fabrication of a new actuator rod and clevis, and while Steve worked on that I began on the radiator support structure. By the time Max and Dan got here Friday evening, Steve and I had put in a couple of full days and had just sat down with a cold one to relax and plan the next day. That didn't go according to plan.... I've noticed that usually once the beer is brought out that marks the end of the work day, but in this case that didn't work either. Apparently Dan and Max were just plain tired of sitting. Or excited at the prospect of working on the car, or both. Whatever the reason, we didn't knock off until well after 2 am, and it didn't get any better when Carl showed up the next day! I gotta tell you, these guys were so gung-ho about firing this thing up that I had to tell them when it was time to eat and time to quit. Now that's not a good thing. I'm terrible about scheduling, and if it weren't for Edith calling me and asking when we planned to eat, I'm not sure we ever would have. As a matter of fact, after she left Sunday to visit the family we kept at it until well into the afternoon with nary a thought of lunch, even though it was sitting there waiting on us. I'm not complaining, but if you're wondering how we did what we did, that was it.

We really kicked it into high gear. As of this point, the dashboard is wired and in the car (not bolted down yet) and most of the gages work. Most of the electrical system is sorted out, thanks to Max and Carl and we have notes on what still needs attention. This is with the old wiring system of course, which we will use until the car is painted, at which time Steve Carrick (Advance Auto Wire) will upgrade it. Dan and Steve got the throttle system up to snuff, making linkages, and sorting out a myriad of other details, such as spark plug wiring and on and on. There is no way I could keep it straight as to who did what, because it was like a well orchestrated game of musical chairs. I mean, these guys are talented, and it was nothing to see all of them working on any one part of the car at different times, and sometimes all at once. The key thing is that with the clear goal of firing off the engine and being able to do a sustained run for break in, every task needed to make that happen was accomplished by Saturday evening. And there was a lot. Fuel pump and lines, tank filler neck, hoses, coolant, surge tank, battery cables, and many other small tasks. At long last we stood in readiness, and as you can see from the video the engine fired right up! The run wasn't perfect, we have a serious lean condition and we glowed the headers rather quickly and shut down. A couple of quick changes to the timing smoothed out the engine quite a lot, and a change from #67 to #72 primary jets helped but there is still a good ways to go. The jet change took a good solid hour to accomplish, maybe more even with Carl's and Max's assistance, and after that I simply refused to endure that ordeal any more, so that was the end of our tuning efforts for this weekend. After seeing what was required to change QuadraJet main jets none of the others wanted to take it on either, and the only reason I did it the first time was to demonstrate just what a horrible task it is.

Steve had wisely called it a night before we tore down the spare Q-Jet he had brought along in order to get the jets, as he was rolling out about 5 in the morning. Sorry Steve, we didn't put it back together. The rest of us kept at it until the wee hours yet again, and put a serious hurt on the beer supply in the process. Sunday we were all up bright and early, and my great appreciation goes out to these guys for their efforts in tidying up the shop before heading for home. I know Steve and I had made a bit of a mess by the time the rest had arrived, and the shop was no showplace when Steve got there, so they left it much better than they found it.

As for my overall impressions of the startup, it was simply awesome! Kevin mentioned that he thought it would have been louder, but any u-tube video of a car running tends to be underwhelming and understated. I will say this, the exhaust note is as good as I could have possibly hoped for and much better than I had expected. Dave VanWyck didn't let us down. As a street car it will be quiet enough to be a comfortable driving machine and will bark when wanted. If the rest of the car lives up to this part we've really got a show stopper on our hands. Despite the poor initial tune the engine is very smooth. Oil pressure is great, in fact during pre-oiling there was so little drag on the drill that we had our doubts that the gage was reading accurately, but when running we showed a solid 45 psi and more. Regrettably we weren't able to sustain a run long enough for proper cam break-in, that will have to wait for proper carb calibration, and that brings up a thorny question. What to do about the carb? I will not do another Q-Jet main jet change. I simply refuse. I realize there are people who like those carbs but I am not one of them and I do not and never will understand how such a thing is even remotely possible. I'll happily change the carb, but if I NEVER so much as even SEE another Q-Jet main jet it will be several lifetimes too soon. Holley, Edelbrock, no problem, but no more of this. Now Dave Kirkman will be here next weekend and he may be able to get us special pricing on an Edelbrock replacement carb. My recommendation is to go with that and do the break-in run next weekend. What say you?

Jim

Not a Quadrajet fan either. There are other spreadbore replacement carbs that are better. Holley spreadbore, Edelbrock (has a Quadrajet clone). Pony caburetors has a Autolite spreadbore( Nice but spendy, plus Ford carb on GM sacriligous.).Then there is Summit's new carb(750cfm square bore,would need an adapter;only $259 with the best of Holley and Autolite features).It would be about 1" taller. Maybe they would sponsor and put the car in the feature section of their catalog.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2009 09:07AM by mgb260.

Guys, how about another possible option that would save us both money and tuning time, use a GM Quadrajet throttle body such as used on the big block Chevy Pickups back in the 80s and 90s along with a closed loop controller such as this one sold by Holley. [www.holley.com] We should be able to pick up an used TB pretty cheap. We'd need some changes to the fuel pump pressure I would guess and possibly a swirl can or return line, but it would solve the drivability issues in any part of the country and eliminate any jet changes. I'm not sure if this would work for us but if you think it's worth some investigation I'll certainly do some research and find out what would be needed.

Bill, if that will fit a spreadbore intake and meter out enough fuel for a 1/2 race cam I'd say let's look into it. I'm guessing we'd need an O2 sensor, and will the Star-Wars air cleaner work with it?

Tom C, it appears the Mitsubishi alternator we used (with the 4 wire round plug) may use an external regulator. Could you see if the car it came from has one? There should be a simple 4 wire harness to link that to the alternator and 2 wires to connect to the car's wiring harness, I think 1 wire to switched power and 1 to the idiot light (Ign).

I think the radiator will work but we will need to have the lower hose neck angled inward at a 45 degree angle to clear the tire. Might be possible to shift the whole works to the other side a bit, I'll look into that. It'd be good if we could keep it an off the shelf item. Our core area is 27 x 17 with 3" of clearance behind the radiator (leaving about 1/4" to the water pump shaft). The core support on the car now will have to be cut off and re-designed as it interferes badly with the tires. In the process I think I can pick up another 7/8" of lower clearance. If we have to we can increase the rear clearance just a little but at the cost of losing the existing hood latch pin, so I'd rather not do that if we can avoid it.

Tom and Graham, we really need a fan package before the radiator support can properly be finished. I believe we have consensus that electric is the way to go, and the entire fin area should be shrouded. If there is a stock shroud that will accept an electric fan, or a fan package that is close to the right dimensions those seem to be the obvious choices. But we need to get that all done before September, including building the new radiator support structure, which will take several days of work and which we should really allow a couple of weeks for. So figuring in shipping that gives you guys only a couple weeks to get that part sorted out. Go with the above dimensions and I will see if we can shift things sideways any for tire clearance. It would probably have to go several inches and the rad neck mod may be the easiest fix but I'll look into it. We may also gain something with a tight bend section from a formed hose as the coupler and we need one of those for the top hose as well. None of that will affect the fan package.

Curtis and Graham, we modded the old recovery tank out of my roadster to use a surge tank. It's ugly, angular and not a particularly good fit but it will work until you guys can come up with something better. There's enough room for a pretty big rectangular clear plastic tank if you can find something suitable. The drain fitting on the radiator lower neck is 3/4" but we can make 5/8" work.

Jim

Awesome job guys! Well Done!!!

Cheers

Pete

WE DROVE IT!!!!

And.......???

Uh, better just leave it here... You wouldn't like it.

:)

COOL!!!

That looks like fun... and sounds good too.

You guys must feel like Dr. Frankenstein after seeing it move for the first time. Well done. I wish I could see the video, the IT police here at work seem to have that blocked.

Awesome!

Sounds like a 455 Buick GSX!

Just a thought. Next year, the StreetRod Nationals in Louisville KY will allow custom cars 1980 and older. I think that car will be a real crowd attraction.

I just got back from camping. Had a great time working with those guys. We gat alot done, butr it seems the next group got it to actually drive.
Jim, it looks good in the drive. What carb did you use?
Is the clutch working now?

Steve

I just got back from camping. Had a great time working with those guys. We gat alot done, butr it seems the next group got it to actually drive.
Jim, it looks good in the drive. What carb did you use?
Is the clutch working now?

Steve

Jim Weise from V8Buick gave us some good advice re: the q-jet carb and we were able to finish the break-in run with it by choking it enough to keep the pipes from glowing, and afterwards it seemed to run pretty good so we left it on there. That right there saved us about 5 hundred smackeroos. We only ran it down the drive, turned around in the front yard and back to the lab twice. We're still waiting on the HTOB and fittings for the brake lines. So we had no clutch or brakes except the e-brake but since we stayed in 1st gear engine braking was more than we needed. The radiator will have to be rodded out, it was 230* at the top couple inches and 80* the rest of the way down. The lower neck can be angled in at 45* at the same time for tire clearance. The fan shroud Tom sent came in today but I don't see how we can use it as the fan opening is offset quite a lot. So we still need a fan package. One more cut and weld is needed on the shifter, the valve covers will have to come off and be sealed one more time probably (3rd time for these valve covers) and the leak we noticed below the car appears to be the rear main seal. Those are the immediate things other than detail work on the wiring and the bodywork. And of course the radiator support needs to be reworked. Tires rubbed the body on both front and rear. On the front it will be easy enough to trim the fiberglass fenders for clearance once we have them. On the rear a little trimming behind the tires is needed and the passenger's side inner wheelwell needs bumped in behind the tire. Plenty of clearance on the other side so who know's what that's all about. Probably another Abingdon oddity. The springs on the coil over units are probably not nearly stiff enough, and the seats really need to be bolted down. Dave hit the gas and I thought I was headed for the trunk!

Sorry you didn't get to drive it first Steve, but it'll just get better from here on.

Jim

;)

I knew you were driving it without a clutch. I'd have done the same thing!

Here's another weekend update:
Graham and Curtis have been diligently researching our options for a fan package and a surge tank. We have a number of fairly good choices for the tank (and of course we can use the old recycled steel one until we find the best choice) but so far they haven't been able to improve on the dual fan package from Summit. There's no point in doing any more to the radiator or front structure until we have that. Dave Kirkman and I had swapped to a rubber top radiator hose last weekend after the corrugated stainless one left it's moorings and gave Dave a hot shower. The fault was in the use of tapered rubber sleeves for the ends so I do NOT recommend the Pep-Boys item for that unless you use straight ends instead of the tapered pieces. The Summit product has better chrome anyway and is a better hose in several ways. Dave was OK but he got a pretty good scare. Luckily we were running water with a small amount of additive rather than glycol so once he dried out he was fine, or at least said he was. We used the stainless hose for a pattern and went to AutoZone and picked out one that matched it's bends, and that does a better job of allowing the hood to close also. Not as much bling and it's regrettable that we wasted the group's money on that, but at least it did make a great pattern. Most importantly though I don't think we need to worry about a repeat performance.

Friday night Dan B came back to help me go get Edith's new chariot (a white Buick V6/auto TR7) but Sunday we were able to do a little work on the Roadmaster. First we wheeled it out and made 3 laps around the farm before the temp came up and we had to park it, and a few observations are in order. The carb needs tuned. It's rich in the bottom end and lower midrance. Very rich, in fact it blubbers a bit. By starting near the bottom of the driveway we were just able to clear the carb and get into the bottom of the powerband by the time we had to shut down for the crest of the hill, and even at that point it is IMPRESSIVE! Coming up the driveway the car hooks up very well. Some slight initial spin with the right tire is all. But once we were into the power, it rips the left tire loose from the concrete in a gradual but fast building way that lets you know that unless you ease up there will be smoke and lots of it. Folks, we have a very fun toy on our hands here.

So anyway Dan and I did a little trimming to help with the worst of the tire rub so we got a little more done than just testing. Ken and Katie will be here this coming weekend Sunday and Monday so hopefully we will make a bit more progress then.

I think we have made fine progress on the project up to this point. If we could it would be good to sort out the front structure before the car is handed off to Pete in September, but even if we don't manage that we can be proud of our accomplishments up to this point. We've proven that a big block Buick is a practical swap into the MGB in terms of fit, weight, performance and cost, and we have a car that is driveable at least for testing and which will soon be on the street. I am happy at this point to be able to hand off to some others who can bring their own unique skills to bear on the project, and I thank you all for your support and encouragement during the first phase of the build. As we go forward into August and then September for the hand-off and beyond let's do our best to continue that support and complete the build in accordance with our timeline that we set up when we started the project. We've done a great job of meeting our deadlines up to now, so let's support Pete and the boys out his way in a manner that will get the job done. I'll still be here of course, plugging away. We all want to drive the car, so let's make it happen.

Jim

Jim,
Sounds like things are really moving now. Wish I could have been there for the test drives. I guess I'll see it a Pete's in Sept.
Congtats to all involved.

Steve