MG Sports Cars

Need some feedback on Electric Fuel Pumps.
At the track at Indy, I noticed that I was getting what I am pretty sure was a lack of fuel at the end of the 1/4 mile straight at about 5500 RPM's in 4th gear.
Installed a new fuel pump. Choose a Mr. Gasket 95H (Summit P/N MRG-95H) mainly because it said that it was self priming.
Pump works OK but it sure is !!! NOISEY !!!. I have tried a lot of different methods of mounting in order to reduce noise, but noise seems to be coming from the pump its self.

What pumps have you found that pump in the 95 gph + range, but are fairly quite?

Merv

The Gerotor style pumps are typically quieter than most, like the Mallory 4070LP (4psi) or 4070M (6psi) - I use the 4070M with a regulator and it it not audible once the engine starts - similar noise level to the original SU.

Thanks Graham, I will give it a try.

Merv

The Mallory pumps certainly ARE quieter than the Facet ("Bendix style") pumps I'd used previously, and for that reason I liked my Mallory "Series 70' pump until it died in Durham during BritishV8 2009. (You were there, Merv!) I can't say I wasn't warned either. Larry Shimp had suffered a similar failure... The Mallory pumps are rebuildable, but the parts aren't inexpensive. After my Mallory pump died, I used the drill press at Dale Spooner's shop to drill a tiny vent hole in my fuel cap because for years I'd been running with an unvented tank and that's apparently hard on fuel pumps. Now I'm using an Advance Auto Parts "E8012S" Made-in-USA pump. It's what Mike Malony was carrying in his trunk when he found me on the road shoulder... I've only got about 4500 miles on it, but so far so good.

Curtis, your point about venting the gas cap was well taken. As soon as you mentioned this, I went out in the garage and loosened up my cap to see if that was the problem (no luck). I vented my cap on the MG by making about a 1/8" cut from the gasket on my filler cap and that seemed to resolve venting problem. I will be venting the cap on the Jaguar with a small hole as this seemed to work for you.

The only time that I ran into what I think is a fuel shortage on the MG, was at the end of the 1/4 mile straight at the Indy track and that was after beating the heck out of the car, so the only way to duplicate this problem is to beat the heck out of my MG on a similar course. (Maybe British V8 2011)

Actually I was installing a new fuel pump in my Jaguar (had a Facet EFP-3 pump) and that gets installed in the rear quarter panel inside the trunk and this seems to simply make any noisy worse. I know that you are not supposed to install in the trunk area, but Jaguar did it.
I am going to see if I can find room outside the trunk area, to see if this will help with noise problem, after all what do those English people know about building cars.

Whatever I get to work on the Jaguar is what I will install in the MG.
My Facet pump worked fine, except that in hot weather I seemed to get a vapor lock that cleared up fairly quickly, but still always a concern.
I will say that I have always traveled with a backup Facet pump, in my tool bag and I do not think that that will change anytime soon.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

Merv

I am going a long, for me, trip in September. 850 miles down to south west France and back. To get ready I have been thinking what spares to take. A fuel pump is top of my list evem though there has been no trouble with the one on the car in the 18 years I have owned it.

David, If you're having doubt about the longevity of your existing fuel pump, I might suggest adding a small Facet/Purolator fuel pump mounted in series with your main pump and with an electrical selector switch in case of failure (pump available from Moss below).

[www.mossmotors.com]

If your original pump decides to pack it in on the Champ d'lysee, a flick of the switch will instantly kick in the Facet. I've had 2 pumps mounted in series for a number of years with no performance issues. The other benefit is that the switch can be put in the "neutral" position while parked to make it an anti-theft mechanism.

Several years ago,I went through two fuel pumps on my red gt before I realized my tank was not vented. I guess I should have realized something was very wrong when the bottom of the tank became concaved from all the negative air pressure :-) Due to my unorthodox filling location (inside the trunk of the gt) I vented mine to the outside of the car with a hose routed from the flexible rubber connection between the filler cap and the tank) have never had a problem since. Here is a picture of our highly respected editor changing his fuel pump at Durham...

And I thought this was a family oriented site! LOL A good friend here in KC carries a Facet pump mounted to a strong disc magnet with some alligator clips on the wire leads. If his pump fails he just pops the spare on the inner fender panel and splices it in next to the fuel filter in the engine compartment and hooks the wires up to a power and ground and he's ready to go, no crawling under the car to switch.

Hey Merv,
There is no way to make those rotary vane pumps quiet!! They are high volume pumps designed for racing.
A 95gph pump might be a little too big for your application particularly if you don't have a bypass return system. All it will do is deadhead the fuel heating it up and overheat the pump. Leading to early failure.
Typically a gasoline engine uses .5lbs of fuel per Hp per hour.
So a 95gph pump @ 6.2lbs per gallon can support almost 1200hp in a perfect world.
I prefer in tank pumps largley because they are quiet, powerfull and last almost forever.
My TR8 uses a 5.0 mustang pump grafted onto the fuel level sender. The original fuel pickup is used for the return line, 1/4" brass fittings were brazed onto the sender cap for the pressure side. The pump bracket was brazed onto the original/now return pipe. Power is fed through the lid by a brass screw and nut and small nylon bushings found at a hardware store. Pressure is fed to an AEM pressure regulator in the engine compartment. Pressure is regulated to 4.0psi and bypass fuel is returned through the original fuel line.
This system never gives problems, never vapour locks, is silent and cheap. If you break down on the road any parts store can supply the mustang pump.
High pressure lines are a must, as well as the fuel filter ( again I used the mustang part)
Power to ANY electric pump must have a safety device such as an inertia switch to stop fuel flow in case of an accident.
I hope thats of some use.
Cheers
Fred

Quote:

Power to ANY electric pump must have a safety device such as an inertia switch to stop fuel flow in case of an accident.

I'm sure that's very good advice. We can't be too safe. One of these days I'll install one...

As was pointed out, only gear type pumps are quiet, but they have reliability issues.

I read a review of the Advance Auto pump on the Advance auto web site. One person complained the pump lasted less than 5000 miles.

My Mallory pump failed due to worn motor brushes. I replaced the brushes and carry a spare set. However, replacing the brushes is not easy and if done wrong can lead to fuel leaks. I would not want to do this on the roadside.

I bought a Holly pump to replace the Mallory. I took it apart before I installed it and found out it is essentialy a Mallory pump in a more expensive case. So much for better engineering (though I can still use my spare Mallory brushes in it).

I think the best solution is indeed to wire a spare pump in series. The spare pump cannot be a gear or rototary pump. It must be a reciprocating pump with check valves that will allow fuel to flow through it (one way only) when it is off.

We will almost certainly need to upgrade the pump in the MGB-Roadmaster after paint. Currently it has one of those canister type Autozone universal pumps but I think they are probably only good for about 300 hp at best. At least they are quiet. I suppose we could put a couple of them in parallel if we had to. Any recommendations?

JB

Larry, did you come up with any Part numbers for the spare pump?
I had read your article on fuel pumps and that really caught my attention and is why I picked on at least 95 gph. By the way thanks for letting me drive your car. I was really IMPRESSED.

I do think that I have found the answer to noisy Electric Fuel pumps and that was to install a louder exhaust system, but perhaps not my final solution, but car sure does sound better.

I have kind of gotten way layed by a leaking rear brake line, so I guess that I will have a chance to learn how to drop the rear axles ass'y out of a Jaguar. Looks like fun.

Thanks
Merv

Hey Curtis,
I can't stress the importance of a fuel cut out device enough. I speak from experience.
In september of 2003 my 1988 Volvo 740 was T-boned at an intersection. I had spent the last 2 years building this car with a 477 BBC and a bunch of other work. It was my pride and joy and would do an 11.88 @ 124mph through the mufflers.
Anyway in the accident the fuel line was cut and the car caught on fire. We weren't hurt in the crash but I got burnt when I opened the hood to put out the fire. The car was a total loss as it burned until it ran out of gas. Nothing was left, even the rims melted along with the r side aluminum cyl head. I don't think the fire would have occured if I had installed an inertia switch. I worked for Volvo for years and safety was paramount. I should have known better. So experience is a rough master.
Now even my race cars have a cut out device of some sort.
Cheers
Fred

Sad story. I do like the way you think, though. (Working for Volvo was good for me too!)

I only recall noticing an inertia switch on one racecar, but it's a car I particularly admire. Les Gonda's!

Notice that it's within arm's reach of the driver seat.

I've long been a big advocate of battery disconnect switches... but they don't trip automatically.

No high delivery electric fuel system should be without an inertia switch. True, the cars didn't come with them, but considering that during a trip to the junkyard you can take your pick for next to nothing and they aren't too expensive new either, it's about as cheap of insurance as you will find. Two screws to mount to any vertical surface, (mine is in the spare battery box next to the high pressure fuel pump) and two wire splices to hook it up and you're insured. The ounce or so of weight added is fully justified.

Some people may worry that it's another added failure point, but reset is easy and as hard as I drive, I've never had it trip.

JB

"the cars didn't come with them"

Oh? The late Bs came with a rollover valve (prone to leak, though) and they came with an electrical impact (inertia) switch under the dash.

Carl's right - all RB cars came with the inertia switch mounted under the dash.
Here's a photo of Tony Andrew's switch relocated to the trunk .

Shows you how much I know.

JB