Engine and Transmission Tech

Can you all, who are much more knowledgeable than I, give me the pros and cons of the 2 different styles of roller rockers for buick/ rover heads. That is shaft mounted stock style vs stud mounted via adapter plate chevy sbc style?
Justin

Really? No one has had any experiences with the sbc style rockers and adapter plates that they can share?

Justin, I have not used stud mounted,roller rockers, as yet on Rovers. If your mounting plates are rigid enough, I see no reason why they would'nt work.Rover V8's have a much lighter valve package than sbc's,(less work for the studs/rockers).Advantages could be : cost, ratios available, and accomodate different int/exh. installed heights.Cheers, roverman.

Not much help, but I run 7/16" stud mounted Harlan Sharp roller rockers with a 560 solid lift cam on my 350 '68 Camaro. Much preferred over the Buick/Rover method.

I would like something similar for my Buick 215.

Thanks for the replies. I've been looking at the HotRod Article and talked to Joe Sherman Racing about the plates they're selling and wondering if it was a good alternative to TSI, TA Performance, and so on. Certainly more cost effective.
Thanks

If anyone here is currently running something like that, I'm not aware of it.

Tim Lanocha from Lanocha racing has been running the plate with chevy rollers for years with awesome power results. This MGBGT is set up this way.
[www.britishv8.org]




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 09:13AM by tr8todd.

After adding up the cost of shermans kit and the fact that you need guided roller rockers [which he states are hard to come by and he only had the set used in the magazine build] they are another 350.00 then you still may need to clearance the ends of the trunnion,purchase custom length pushrods which need to be pushrod oiling type then add lifters you are better off with the T.A. performance roller setup cost wise performance wise etc the ratio on the T.A. rockers are 1.6 [shermans 1.52] if you are running past 6k then you would notice THE LOSS. Stick with T.A. or Woody Coopers from the wedge shop and if you are intent on the stud setup give woody a call and have him order up some from lanocha ,sherman is slow rude and unorganized not at all customer friendly he stalls and gives plenty of call me later excuses and whines he cant spend any time with you until he sees some money. T.A. PERFORMANCE as well as Woody Cooper have been wonderful to work with any time i had questions, ive spent money with them and will continue to support their companys they are helpful and knowledgeable. I tried ordering from harland sharp they were too busy too custom make any shafts and stands for the rockers their rollers are 1.55 ratio and bushed they have good warranty history and will take the time to help, could i have waited two and a half months i would have bought from them, I ordered from T.A. as for the money they are the way to go i did the comparisons and based upon performance gained per dollar [PROVEN DESIGN] id say i made a wise choice ,you will need to either raise the stock rocker covers or buy taller ones. It is an easy choice T.A. Performance, Woodys Roller setup or if you just want rollers and stock shafts are strong enough for your application Harland Sharps cant be beat.

To me it looks like you could make that adapter bar easily. Figure pushrod length and use common SBC 1.6 roller rockers. It does'nt look like rocket science to me. A piece of 6061 aluminum like that would be under $10. That's a pretty high profit margin. The Cadillac 4.9 uses a similar set up but more complicated as the valves are rotated more sideways. Personally I think a 1/2" steel bar would be more ridgid. The aluminum one in the Caddy has stripped out or cracked sometimes.Here is a picture of the Caddy setup in steel and the aluminum Buick setup:





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 02:00PM by mgb260.

There are valve cover adapters available to use SBF and now SBC valve covers. The increased height will probably be needed for the rollers. Some on this board are going to small V6 roller lifters also. Has anybody tried the newer Buick V6 beehive valve springs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2011 01:29AM by mgb260.

New beehive valve springs,... that's so funny! Olds used them on the first 215's.

JB

Jim, I knew that. (LOL) Actually Olds used them way before that in the first V8, 1952? or around there. I know some people are using the 3800 valves. So why not try the valvesprings also. Actually Ford V6 uses them also.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 09:22PM by mgb260.

As in pac alloy, Ferrea ? Bought a set for the 5.7L hemi. AWESOME ! Had I only known, I would'nt have cut the Merlin seats to use Comp. beehives, and their less $'s ! roverman.

As in pac alloy, Ferrea ? Bought a set for the 5.7L hemi. AWESOME ! Had I only known, I would'nt have cut the Merlin seats to use Comp. beehives, and their less $'s ! roverman.

I bought a set of Yella Terras From USA about 1,5 years ago. Straight swap. Roller tip with bush on the shaft. I also have SBC Comp beehives in Merlin heads. Funny though, the beehive was 4 grams lighter than the "normal" spring. Naturally the retainer is smaller and lighter.

If you want to go shaft mounted rollers, look at T and D rockers with the cut to length aluminum tube spacers. You will need 2 feet of the tubing to do a set of heads. Word of advice. Order them without the oiling holes drilled and drill them yourself, or else they will dump way too much oil onto the valve spring area. I also had to have bushings installed into the oiling holes in the heads under the stantions to cut down on oil supply.
[www.tdmach.com]

This is good info, that's why I asked here.
Terry,
The $350 rocker price tag is a bit high. Proform rockers can be had for $166 for a set and if you don't want to go with Chinese rockers there are Scorpion rockers for around $220, both have a ratio of 1.6:1 and are self aligning. I think, may be wrong, if one is using non stock length, over sized valves that custom pushrods would most likely be needed to keep the correct geometry...right? Lifters are cheap and need replacing anyhow and I can live with oiling through the push rod. I hear what you're saying about a reputable vendor but I wouldn't put Joe Sherman Racing in the shady, inexperienced category, and I talked to them and didn't have the same experience you had but what do I know?
So roller rockers from TSI run about $425 a set using all your own shafts. Using SBC adapters $289, rockers $166-$220= $455 - $509. I have no problem with Chinese rockers, probably overkill for my little 4.9 rover so the difference comes down to around $30. TA, Yella Terra, WedgeShop are way out of my income bracket so they are non starters for me.

justin, not questioning mr shermans engine building, as stated the aluminum adapters do have a higher chance of stripping and or breaking, as for cost chinese made rockers arent a bargain. look on ebay or shop around for some and you will find some better quality maybe used for less. using you own shafts then go with the Harland sharps for 400.00 and be done with it. Im no expert on aftermarket however i do have quite a bit of experience with stock factory rover engines as ive been a rover technician since 1998 and have seen all of the things that go wrong and can be improved upon ive come up with some of the factorys fixes for them that work better than their engineers. As the valvetrain is one of the weak areas the oiling system another i would suggest you reconsider using the cheap adapter from sherman as lanochas is proven sherman himself told me he didnt know about its reliability all in all seriously save yourself an expensive headache and buy something allready proven by the hard learned lessons of others! Just my two cents,

Honestly, I don't really see why all the interest in roller rockers. Are you guys running half an inch of lift and 7 grand redlines or something? I hardly know anyone running a street engine over 6, and once you get past about .400 lift streetability tends to suffer. Am I missing something here?

JB

Jim, stock rover cast rockers can and do break with disasterous consequences, [i know ive broken them and seen others do the same] this is on stock engines even. my only issue is not to use inferior parts that may fail at or below the level a stock one would without any performance or cost benefit. rollers do offer up some advantages although small at stock power levels. all the same geometry is improved with properly designed roller setup[ ie T.A.] friction reduction etc. if you are going to spend money enough to upgrade the valvetrain why bother with something that is mediocre or unproven reliability wise and gives a negligible performance improvement if any, my input was only geared at averting a possible bad outcome of someone choosing an inferior product touted as new or revolutionary in design, i hope this closes the issue as ive done my part going over the merits pros and cons of each system. i stand by my little bit of input ,in closing i only hoped to save others from making a bad parts combo choice.