Steering, Suspension, & Brakes

tips, technology, tools and techniques related to non-driveline mechanical components

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roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2838 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Electric power rack steering
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 03, 2011 11:20AM

Reportedly some Dodge Intrepids. Anyone retrofitted to electric asisted rack ? Let's discuss. Thanks, roverman.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1712 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: mgb260
Date: November 03, 2011 01:26PM

Art, Dodge Intrepid has conventional center steer rack and pinion, same as Cavalier but front steer. It is available with electronic variable assist(sensor and solenoid valve). I found the best Electric pump is Toyota second gen MR2. It has remote reservoir also. I don't know what the last one's from.
Here are pics:
$(KGrHqMOKooE3FEgLpcSBN0YMftqYg~~_12.jpg
pspump2.jpg
reservoir1.jpg
powersteeringpump.jpg


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4269 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: Moderator
Date: November 03, 2011 01:39PM

As I recall, MGF was the first production car to have electric power steering, and that the rack looked exactly like a normal (non-power) rack because the power assist motor is actually on the steering column. You can see or buy all the components on eBay's UK website.

At least theoretically, electronic controls can make steering assist road-speed sensitive, self-adapting for tire and road surface variables, and even adaptable for driver preference. If I were working at an OEM, I'd be excited about these possibilities. In that context, if you must have power steering I expect electric is the future: ultimately it should be lighter, cheaper, and easier to package than hydraulics. But for an early adopter there will certainly be tradeoffs in terms of development costs and liability exposure.

I don't know why any able-bodied person would want power steering on their lightweight vintage sportscar. To make their car easier to parallel park? Dead weight! It must be surely be easier to alter caster, fit a larger diameter steering wheel, change steering rack gear ratio, etc.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1712 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: mgb260
Date: November 03, 2011 03:01PM

I agree with you Curtis, but if you are older,disabled or your wife likes easier steering. Just another option. The Intrepid rack can be plugged and used as a manual also same as Cavalier. 3 turns lock to lock and 6" travel, about the same as MGB. The beauty of it is the ability to optimize your bump steer and ackerman by using a angle adapter the right length you can put the inner tie rod ends exactly where you want them.
tie%20rod%20bracket.jpg


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2838 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Electric power rack steering/ for the feeble ?
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 03, 2011 05:53PM

Ok, I'm not disabled or a wife, maybe because I'm OLDER, yeah-thats it ! Not quite feeble, but truth be known, I just found out my C5 Vette front suspension clip has no "rack" to steer with. Maybe I should try to order a "special- manly" manual rack from the dealer ? Good Luck with that. Car will weigh approx 3k pounds with really-fat tires using lots of quick succession turns. I've heard nasty rumors of "real" race cars actually using power assist-discusting. Cheers, roverman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2011 05:56PM by roverman.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1712 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: mgb260
Date: November 03, 2011 07:46PM

Art for the Vette clip you want Cavalier rear steer rack. Here is a pic with square tube adapter:
rpcenter.jpg


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2838 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 03, 2011 11:42PM

Thanks Jim, any possibility that will work with the Toyota electric pump ? Cheers, roverman.



mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1712 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: mgb260
Date: November 04, 2011 07:34PM

Speedway motors has an adjustable pressure valve. The Cavalier and Intrepid rack are low pressure like Mustang II.(2 gpm) I know the normal GM power steering (other than Cavalier)is high pressure and normally require 3gpm at the rack. That's why Mustang II racks are twitchy with the GM pumps. Maybe the Variable assist valve on the Intrepid rack can be adapted to the Cavalier. You can use angle or flat bar for the adapter for rear steer also,here is a pic in a old pickup:
Original_cavalier_inner_tie_rods.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2011 07:35PM by mgb260.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1164 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: November 04, 2011 10:20PM

Subaru used to have a pretty neat electric power steering setup.
When I worked for Subaru in the 80's we used to see the system on the XT6 cars. And then latter on the SVX.
It used a variable pressure electric pump and a mostly conventional rack.
Worked pretty well as I recall.
The whole system was modular and would retro fit easily.
Cheers
Fred


socorob
Robbie
La
(173 posts)

Registered:
09/17/2009 04:42PM

Main British Car:
1963 Sunbeam Alpine Series 2 Ford 2.8 V6

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: socorob
Date: November 05, 2011 10:14AM

my coworker has a chevy hhr and his power steering was giving him troulble. There was no pump anywhere the belt went. Come to find out, it has electric power steering.


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(252 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: November 05, 2011 09:23PM

Yes electric power steering is becoming more comon on GM vehicles all the time. There is an electric motor mounted to the steering column along with the power steering control module. They can take up a fair amount of room under the dash, but flip side is the space saved on the engine.
The advantages include acurate speed sensitive steering, less road shock through the steering wheel and slightly improved fuel economy.
However sometimes they can lack "road feel" and in some applications are all most "to" easy to steer.

Bill



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2011 09:26PM by MG four six eight.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Cypress, TX
(2277 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: rficalora
Date: November 06, 2011 11:04AM

Similar thread on the MG Experience board. Dan Masters pointed folks to an after market unit. See pg. 56 in the current Street Rodder magazine. I just got mine in the mail Friday - it's the January issue -- magazines seem to know something about the calendar the rest of us don't.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2838 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Electric power rack steering, 2 kinds ?
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 07, 2011 11:49AM

Are we describing
"pure" electric assist versus electric powered hydralic system? It sounds like Bill J. is describing a "pure" electric assist, without hydraulics involved ? I have an associate with a Cad. CTS. The system mal-funtiontioned, and tried to steer him into a guard rail ! No factory recall, the mechanic downplayed as a faulty sensor. This could be tragic ! Thanks, roverman.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4269 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: Moderator
Date: November 07, 2011 12:19PM

You started the thread!

It can be tragic when ANY power steering system fails. For awhile when it was near death, my '71 Valiant's power steering would cut-in and cut-out on highway exit ramps. It was safer after I removed the power steering pump... Boy, that was a long time ago! Anyhow... having both electric and hydraulic parts to worry about seems like way too much complexity.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4269 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: Moderator
Date: November 07, 2011 12:38PM

You could have the whole MGF system for about 120-150. One benefit of this installation is that it doesn't add bulky parts to your engine compartment... apparently except for a speed sensor, the electric parts are on the dry side of the firewall. So clean! I wouldn't have it on my MGB, but I do think it's a nifty approach.

MGF-rack.jpg

MGF-steering-column.JPG

MGF-steering-ECU.JPG



Dan B
Dan Blackwood
South Charleston, WV
(831 posts)

Registered:
11/06/2007 01:55PM

Main British Car:
1966 TR4A, 1980 TR7 Multiport EFI MegaSquirt on the TR4A. Lexus V8 pl

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: Dan B
Date: November 07, 2011 01:29PM

Ford Escape has it. I like it.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1712 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: mgb260
Date: November 07, 2011 01:44PM

Yes, very cool! But,If you look at the pictures of the Intrepid variable assist and the remote power steering pump which can be mounted anywhere out of the way without crowding under dash area or replaceing steering column.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 01:47PM by mgb260.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1712 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: mgb260
Date: November 07, 2011 04:42PM

Art, Cavalier and other GM J bodies had variable assist option also. They also had a low pressure valved "sport" option for more road feel. These are all rear steer. Dodge Intrepid,Chrysler 300 etc. are front steer and are made by Delco also with same options. Based on Saab/Opel design. Commonly used to retrofit power steering or conversion from steering box type. My unknown pump picture is latest MR2 design with integral reservoir.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 04:56PM by mgb260.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5103 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 07, 2011 06:50PM

I think you guys just have the wrong wheels. I put 255's on the front of my MG and it steers easier than stock. Just change the offset to move the wheel in further. Oh yeah I forgot, it takes a 16 or 17" wheel to do that and clear the tie rod end.

JB


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Cypress, TX
(2277 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Electric power rack steering
Posted by: rficalora
Date: November 08, 2011 08:03AM

The after market one mentioned above (by Unisteer) is pure electric. Appears similar to the MGF on Curtis pictured. Ad says variable assist by sensing input torque to controversial. And monitors parts - if detects a failure disengages and steering is same as if no assist.
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