Engine and Transmission Tech

Jim N,
I saw where you had started a thread about transmissions on another forum and Mark Taylor in Colorado posted that he was doing this swap. Have you heard anything else from him?

Dan, I have had PM's from Mark but more on the adapter than anything. I know he's using a W58(Celica GT/Supra) transmission and a 2004 1.9 TDI. Also a ECU chip upgrade. I think he is doing the install and documenting it in a week or two. I haven't heard of any fitment issues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2012 07:10PM by mgb260.

Well I have found a guy with a TDI engine that has been declared unrebuildable that will allow us to test fit it in the MG. Hopefully that will sort out the issues on what needs to be modified to get this to fit. Also, he needs the transmission from a TDI but not an engine, so he is willing to split the cost on one that has been rolled into a ball. It seems that getting an engine for less than 1.5k may be viable. >:D

-Matt

The engine fit MUCH better than expected. >:D

It is so stubby it can fit behind the crossmember. This means that the only issue with size now is width. It seems that in order to get that to work, the oil filter will have to be relocated. Not a massive deal, but any suggestions with that are appreciated.

Got some pics below of the test fit engine in the car, along with the newly set up engine hoist :D. Enjoy, and any comments are much appreciated.

-Matt

Matt,Cool! Most FWD engines are short. If you use the homemade Toyota adapter look for a 84-88 2WD 4 cylinder Toyota pickup for the bellhousing ,flywheel and W55 5 speed. Data plate on door. You don't want W56 as it has a stump puller first.

Another thing we discussed was the possibility of using the MG engine plate. IIRC it is 3/8" thick steel, about the right configuration, and has a big concentric hole for the crank. It will accept the MG bellhousing already meaning it should be easy to mate that to the TDI engine. Then just add the pattern for the Toyota and that will work too. Add the small GM corporate pattern and the T-5 will also work.

Jim

Jim, Dave Headley found in his MGB to T5 adapter with the small corporate bell he had to use the early smaller flywheel(3 main)and starter.I know you can make anything work,just trying to help.

Awesome news!

Now... can I recommend a really good digital camera that will only set you back about $40-50 used? [www.ebay.com] (The tilt/swivel LCD makes the G-series cameras ideal of close-up and detail photos of car parts. Build quality on these was outstanding. They were ~$800/new back in the day.)

Yeah Jim, you have got to get Matt a camera!!!

That is great news on the fitment.

Got outbid on that one, we'll see.
Been learning a bit about these turbo diesels. Since compression is critical, what would the typical reading for an 18.5:1 engine be? 16 x18.5? That would be 296 psi. Does that sound right? Also, I have this fairly new HF leak down tester but I never did figure out how to use it. Seems like now might be a good time but the directions seem to be quite confused. A link to the correct proceedure would be most helpful.

Diesels run on oil, and a turbo has the potential to make up for leaky rings, so I can see where this combination could result in the sort of damage seen in the scrap engine we are using for test fitting. It ran away, bent and broke all the rods and put a hole in the block. Quite a pretty sight. But it makes me think in different terms about oil consumption. Bad rings + heavy throttle (needed because of low power) = broken parts. So the rings and the valve guides and seals really need to be in very good condition. Just another reason why these are expensive engines I guess.

Once we get a pan, damper, and a valve cover on the engine and get it blocked up in position where we can unhook from the hoist we will be able to test fit the hood and see what will have to be done with the oil filter/cooler assembly. But that won't be likely until after Thursday. At this point I think the filter assembly will have to be replaced and it is highly ugly anyway. So I will suggest that Matthew disassemble it and clean it up so we can do a proper autopsy. One possible option might be to section the area between the mount and the body and heli-arc it back with a different angle so it clears the steering. However a more conventional remote mount and external oil cooler might be a better solution.

Jim

RE: Leakdown test procedure:
Quite a few instructional examples available on Google - even some YouTube stuff.
Here's your HF instructions
[manuals.harborfreight.com]

...and here's an example from Carcraft magazine
[www.carcraft.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2012 11:28AM by ex-tyke.

Hi Jim and Matthew,im doing this swap too...dont get yourself into adapter plates or bellhousings . easy way out is audi a4 a6 quattro gearbox.remove front flanges and ring gears if you want less weight if not they can stay.remove torsen diff and weld the 3 gears together.get some machine shop to balance that for you.put it back and there you are-mgb rwd.advantages off all that you dont need to worry about flywheels starters or clutches, everything bolts right in.mgb rear axle is 3.9 audi rear diff is 3.889 so is no difference if you wanna keep axle stock.be aware thou that diff rated just for 230nm and 1.9 tdi has around 240nm stock depending on the engine code.if i where you i would look for longitudinal mounted engine as in audi because is a lot that needs to be changed to run traverse.
well anyway good luck whit it and ask if you need some advice.

Got any photos of that set up?

Jim, Martin is talking about a AWD transaxle with the cv axles removed and diff welded up to force all the output to the rear driveline. I don't see why it wouldn't work but may require tunnel work to make room.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2012 12:42PM by mgb260.

Thanks guys, and Graham, thanks for the links. I think I understand it now.
I'd guess that quattro gearbox is going to be very expensive, but it could be a good option anw worth looking into.

Jim

Jim, Audi A4 1.8 Quattro(same platform as Passat) gas motor has same bellhousing pattern as TDI. Nationwide search on car-part.com shows lots between $500-$1000.

I don't think it's a good idea. T looks too wide to me.

Jim

Jim there is no way that quattro box is wider then mgb. audi a4 b5 quattro.fourth generation quattro system.available from 95-01, or later ones b6 would work aswell,they just more expensive. 1.8t quattro like jim suggested or any bigger engined cars will work as long they are quattro.really cool thing on all quattro boxes is that they will bolt on all the vag group engines eiter 4 5 or 6 cylinder.the quattro box that jim post the picture is early type generation 2 there is no torsen diff just open and manualy lockable.that box will work to but it would be hard to find.
only thing by tdi conversion is you cant go with gasoline box because of the gear ratios.diesel box on tuned gasoline engine will work very well but not the other way around.
audi a6 c6 1.9tdi or v6 2.5 tdi is another option.they are 5 or 6 speed.
there is a lot of unanswered question :like -do you gonna buy the whole car or getting bit by bit?dont know whats the prices in us but i got my conversion donor for 500 euro..whats that?650$?tell me more about and i try to give you a list of possible ways to go around.also do you plan to get more power out of your tdi or keep it stock?
about the oil filtter that matthew posted above :seems to me the engine that you got is transverse mounted.beware as i suggested you before transverse engine is NOT made to be mounted other way .to make it work you need to change oil pan ,oil pickup pipe,oil fillter housing.audi oil filter housing is pointed bit sideways that might help you with the space issue .and one more thing it is not recommendet to mount the engine without angle because of the lubrication flow.
good luck guys .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2012 10:05PM by MGB-MODDER.

Martin, All the TDI swaps I know of use FWD motors with Toyota or Suzuki RWD 5 speed trans. Most use ACME adapters and are mounted either straight up or stock 15 degree slant with no issues. As Matt found out,the FWD motor is short and fit behind the crossmember. I think you could adapt an aftermarket remote oil filter and cooler. Your idea of the Quattro transmission is interesting. This picture shows it is pretty compact. Instead of welding up the diff can you make a spool(coupler) instead?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 03:23AM by mgb260.

well Jim there is a few vag group engine conversions has been done in rwd.some used acme adapters or more corectly bellhousings on ford type 9 gearbox,some uses adapter plate and ford mt75.but personally im prefer to go stock instead of inventing something .right set gear ratios is what you need on tdi engine.
engine are made to be slanted so maybe no issues yet,or maybe wont gonna be at all but its very easy to keep it slanted...especially on lhd mgb.right hand drive you have clearance issues because of the steering . oil filtter:you can run some different setup im pretty sure,but i just give an option
coupler on the centre open diff maybe,but i dont know how it would work on torsen diff.thats the picture what needs to be done.is straight forward job.