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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(786 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: January 03, 2013 06:33PM

Engine weights are always coming up for discussion and validation. I've just weighed my old Olds 215/T5 assembly and am sharing the results for comparison with previously documented weigh-ins.
This assembly includes all components for a drop in (minus carb) - it includes accessory drive, start motor, intake/exhaust manifolds, distributor, clutch, HTOB, aluminum flywheel, T5 and shifter.
Weighed with a crane scale at 428lbs....this compares favourably with Dan Master's 440lb - the difference, probably, being the difference in the flywheel weight.

Olds weigh-in at 426lb.jpg


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(438 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 03, 2013 07:01PM

Graham,

That 440 pounds I got was for the engine alone. The T5 and bellhousing add another 85 pounds. Subract about 5 pounds for the carburetor and we get 520. So with a carb, we get:

BOP/R - 445
MGB - 468
SBF - 525

The BOP/R is 23 pounds lighter than the MGB, and the Ford is about 57 pounds more than the MGB, and about 80 pounds more than the BOP/R. These numbers seem to be in the ballpark of what we've been talking about.

FWIW, the flywheel on most Ford sedans weighs 40 pounds, on the crate engine it's 27. I'm not sure about the various Mustang models.

Great info, Graham, thanks!

Left to right: MGB engine, MGB engine with transmission, Ford 302 long block with no accessories.

MGB vs Ford 302.jpg


burner1
Gary W

(184 posts)

Registered:
09/24/2011 09:59AM

Main British Car:


Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: burner1
Date: January 04, 2013 02:48PM

Graham do you have a post which shows what you have done to your grill?


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(438 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 04, 2013 06:15PM

OK, we're on a roll! Let me add some more info (correct me if I'm wrong).

Someone posted on here that Pete Mantell weighed a 215 and a stock MGB engine and got:

215 - 443
MGB - 468

IIRC, Jim Blackwood posted these bare block weights:

215 - 68
Buick 300 - 142
455 Buick - 177

I weighed a bare Ford block and got:

Ford - 127

Now if we could only get some data for the Various Chevy V8 and GM V6 options!


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(1974 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 04, 2013 08:21PM

Gary, he bought it from J.C. Whitney. ;)

Engine weights? Last argument on that other forum had the 302 Ford swap lighter than a stock MGB (okay, unbelievably close to stock). Urban myth or fact? I think we all decided it doesn't matter.


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(438 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 04, 2013 09:08PM

Quote:
Last argument on that other forum had the 302 Ford swap lighter than a stock MGB

I never said that! I did, and still do, claim that the 302 is only 25-30 pounds heavier than an MGB/transmission/overdrive. I've always said it's about 50-60 pounds heavier if you don't include the OD on the MGB combo.

I think it's only fair to compare a 5 speed to an overdrive, but that's just one opinion.


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(786 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: January 04, 2013 09:19PM

I can't help but feel that there is still too much conflicting information published on engine weights....I don't know what to believe.
eg. From what I've understood over the years from reading published specs is that the weight of a SBF is 460lb and a SBC is 540lb...here's a typical chart on SBF longblock engines that somewhat reflects the Ford values.
[www.carmemories.com]
...compare these with Dan's long block weight of 525lb.
Then if we start adding for engine accessory trim parts and subtracting for aluminum heads (-50lb) and aluminum flywheel (-15lb) things get even more confusing. Aluminum heads and flywheel brings the weight within stock MGB engine territory (or does it?)
The next time I get to pull my SBF out of the chassis - I'll be doing some weight comparisons to satisfy my curiosity.



MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(1974 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 04, 2013 09:21PM

Quote:
I think it's only fair to compare a 5 speed to an overdrive, but that's just one opinion.

I would agree, but I can't. :) Most MGBs did not come with overdrive.


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(438 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 04, 2013 10:04PM

Quote:
.compare these with Dan's long block weight of 525lb

Graham,

The 525 I quoted above was for the engine AND transmission! The complete engine alone weighs 440. The bell housing and T5 weigh 85 pounds. One factor that accounts for the 460 pounds usually listed vs my 440 is the flywheel. Many OEM 302 flywheels were 40 pounds; the crate 302 flywheel is only 27. That acounts for 13 pounds. The other 7 pounds could be accounted for by the starter.

Quote:
I would agree, but I can't. :) Most MGBs did not come with overdrive.

Carl,

As long as we agree on what we're including! Apples to apples, and all that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 10:15PM by danmas.


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(438 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 04, 2013 10:11PM

FWIW: I bought a junkyard 302, pulled it apart and weighed all the components seperately. When I bought my crate 302, I added the weights of the components that were included to get an estimate of what the crated package should weigh. When I got the crate, I unpacked it and weighed the packing material. I subtracted the weight of the packing from the bill of loading weight to get the engine weight, and the figure for the engine matched my estimate to the pound.

Naturally, any individual engine weight will vary depending on what ancillaries are included - there can be a ten pound difference for example between a lightweight starter and an OEM starter.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(4054 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 05, 2013 12:40PM

Those bare block weights can easily be off by 8 lbs if the main caps are not included (or if they are). The weights I gave were with the caps included.

Dan, do you recall where you saw that 68 lb weight for the 215 bare block? Up until now I was quite certain it was 60 lbs.

Another item people forget is the pressure plate and clutch. Good bit of weight right there. I do think there are a few light weight pressure plates available, most likely racing parts. The damper weight can also be significantly different.

I'm greatly surprised by the difference in the weight of the SBB bare block and the SBF bare block, given that the assembled engine weights are within 5 lbs +- of each other. Were the main caps included in the weight of the Ford?

I wish I had the platform scales when I measured those weights. Not that I suspect inaccuracies but it would have been easier and more convenient to get good repeatable numbers. However I also suspect the 142 lb figure for the 300 bare block because I think I had a 2 lb difference between the 300 block and the 340 block with the 215 being 60, the 300 at exactly 140 and the 340 at 142.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(1974 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 05, 2013 01:13PM

Quote:
Dan, do you recall where you saw that 68 lb weight for the 215 bare block? Up until now I was quite certain it was 60 lbs.

You are both too high. I have a bare 3.9 Rover block in my garage. I can easily pick it up with one hand & carry it around. Feels more like 40 lbs. bare.


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(438 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 05, 2013 03:02PM

Jim,

I was thought I was quoting you on the 68 pounds, but if you say it's 60, then 60 it is (unless Carl tosses his on the bathroom scales and gives us another number).

There is a YouTube video somewhere showing a huskily built young gent picking up a BOP/R block and carrying it around to show how light it is. I'm 5' 6" and 135 pounds, but I'm able to pick up a Ford block from the floor and set it up on the workbench, so it's no surprise that Carl can easily heft the aluminum block, even if it does weigh 60 or 68 pounds.

The 127 I quoted for the bare 302 block did not include the main caps. I weighed them separately and got 7 pounds for a total of 134.

We're getting there - we're slowy zeroing in on the actual numbers (allowing for the obvious variances from one engine to another).


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(4054 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 05, 2013 03:57PM

Dan, was that with the bolts? Could be another pound right there, so maybe 135? That is 5 lbs less than the 300 at 140 and matches perfectly with finished engine weights I think. Since the 300 is a skirted block that is where the extra 5 or 6 lbs went.

Without the caps I think the 215 weighs 52 lbs more or less. Maybe Carl can do it but I don't think I could tell the difference between 40 and 52 on something that big.

Jim


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(438 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 05, 2013 06:39PM

Jim,

That did not include the bolts. I put all the nuts, bolts, washers, and plates in a plastic bag and weighed them all together - 11 pounds. I'm not sure now what the "plates" included. That was about 18 years ago, and at 72, my memory doesn't include anything that happened less than 50 years ago.



MGB-FV8
Jacques Mathieu
Alexandria, VA
(299 posts)

Registered:
09/11/2009 08:55PM

Main British Car:
1977 MGB Small Block Ford, 331 Stroker

Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: MGB-FV8
Date: January 05, 2013 07:44PM

WOW, I'll have to re-check my engine (331 small block Ford late model 5.0 liter block) and also my scale as it comes under 500 lbs fully dressed with an aluminum flywheel, GT-40 intake manifold, March pulley system and light weight internal rotating stroker kit. The lightest SBF made is the 5.0 Liter and if you've built an older block some can be as much as 35 pounds heavier. I'll weigh and take photos of my engine prior to installing it in the engine bay and I'll post the exact figure. Does anyone have a spare $3,500.00 for a Dart aluminum 302 block (LOL)........


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(4054 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 05, 2013 08:23PM

Oddly enough that seems to be pretty reasonable for an aluminum block. The TA block for the BBB runs close to 7 grand I think. Of course, it is quite exceptional.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(1974 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 05, 2013 08:29PM

Dan, I might be just under 6' 2" but I only weigh 180 lbs. My best bet is to just outrun all the big bruisers on this forum. That I can probably do.

That said, I thought I was wrong once, turned out I was only mistaken. Crap! I hate when that happens.

I weighed the 3.9 block on a digital Soehnle bathroom scale (German precision since 1868). I was shocked. That 68 is real close. I got 62.3 lbs on a bare block with no main caps. When I find the caps, I'll stack them on the block & weigh again. I have some heads I can weigh, as well (along with intakes, stock 215 carb, 215 exhaust manifolds, dual path tranny, 454Chevy bare block, etc... ;)


MGB-FV8
Jacques Mathieu
Alexandria, VA
(299 posts)

Registered:
09/11/2009 08:55PM

Main British Car:
1977 MGB Small Block Ford, 331 Stroker

Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: MGB-FV8
Date: January 05, 2013 11:22PM

Yeap, I was off a couple of thousand dollars, however I'm still up for donations :)

[www.roushyatesparts.com]

Hey, I can dream can't I?!?!?!


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(1974 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: BOP engine weight....again!
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 06, 2013 09:10AM

$5500 to save 80 lbs or so. There are much cheaper ways to do that...including swapping in an LS1. ;)
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