Engine and Transmission Tech

Jacques, you would drive the EDIS coils from the MS3 but you would have to have a driver module, the idea being to drive the four windings separately. EDIS is good, it only needs a trigger sent to the MS and a SAW wave returned for advance. But it is not capable of timing the cylinders independently so far as I know so "ideal" is currently a bit dated.

I just hooked my spark plug wires back up and will use the EDIS initially on this new engine, but the coils are big, clunky and not attractive so they will probably go, in the MS3 upgrade. Provided I find some coils I like.

Jim

Has anyone looked at the Honda 3.5 V6 coils? They're 3-wire but have a 90° angle. I don't know if that helps.

My ignition coils arrived this morning! I bought a full set of eight used "LS2 Truck" coils, on their original brackets and with harnesses. These are the coils GM used from about 2002 through 2006 on LS2 V8 powered Trail Blazers, Yukons, Escalades, etc. (They're type D585, coil part number 19005218.) Here's what they look like...

on their original bracket:


removed from bracket:


It's hard to see in that first photo, but each GM bracket assembly actually consists of five stampings. There are steel sub-brackets which wrap 270+ degrees around each individual coil. I don't think those brackets are particularly attractive or clever, so I'll probably discard them and cobble up something new. Doing so will allow me to pack the coils closer together. I think the absolute minimum footprint for four of these coils in a single row is about 6.5" by 2.25". From tip to tip, the coils measure ~3.75" long and then of course you need to allow room for the mating 4-terminal connector (at least 3/4") and the spark plug wire.

One unusual feature of these coils is that they have finned aluminum heat sinks. Even more interesting, GM installed little clips to ground the heat sinks of each respective coil to the steel brackets.

I'm still not certain where in the engine bay they'll fit best. You know that bracket MG mounted their fuse block on? I'm thinking about making a mirror image version of that for the driver side... I'm not really in love with that mounting location, but (a) it keeps the spark plug wires short and nearly equal length, (b) it puts the coils and their connections in a particularly serviceable location, and (c) the installation would be nicely symmetrical. The main downside is relatively close proximity to the exhaust headers - so I'm pondering covers and heat shields.

Those look really good Curtis! I might have to buy a set myself. I'm thinking about a bracket of some sort that attaches to the two outside valve cover bolts and positions the coils directly above the spark plugs. Then just a short conductor and a long boot should make the connection.

With four contacts I take it these *are* logic level coils? How about an end view showing the connector and heat sink?

Jim

Definitely logic level... so MS3-Pro will drive them directly. (No additional electronics req'd.)

Here's another snapshot:

Odd about that clip. Could you check for continuity between the fins and the ground lead? I suspect it may just be for static suppression. The driver should be attached to the back side of the heat sink but probably with heat sink grease so the ground there may not be completely reliable.

I am definitely interested in those. Care to share where you bought them and the cost?

Jim

My quick continuity test seems to agree with your hypothesis, although I didn't take time to look up pin-outs or anything.

I bought the coils from an eBay store. They have loads more, here: [www.ebay.com] Based on date codes, I've no doubt my two sets of four coils are from two different vehicles. (One is dated 2003 and the other 2004.) The first set I unwrapped looks great. The second... the bracket it a little rusty and a little dinged-up like someone dropped it, but the coils look fine.

Curtis

You may need a couple of these if you are using the coil harness as is. These are supposed to be hard to find in a junkyard.

[www.mouser.com]

Hey, that's VERY helpful! Thank you, Scott. Tracking down connector part numbers can eat a lot of time! That's a MetriPack 150-series connector, so I have terminals and seals for it already. I understand there's a GT-series connector which technically supersedes it and is interchangeable - a generation newer - but I don't have any GT-series terminals.

Coincidentally, yesterday I tracked down a part number for the connector that mates to a Ford Taurus/Windstar V6 cam position sensor. (The same sensor Bill Jacobson and Jim Blackwood used.) Maybe I can save someone else some time: the cam position sensor connector part number is 3U2Z-14S411-SMA (a.k.a. WPT-579), although technically it's superseded also. I believe the newer version is 3U2Z-14S411-SLA (a.k.a. WPT-759). I need to do a little more research to make sure I get the correct terminals, locks, etc. --- and bringing things back around, I believe these are the same two-wire connectors that most commonly mate to Ford coil-on-plug ignition coils.

I wonder if there would be any chance that we could start a library section with things like these part numbers? I know there are a number of hard to find items that I could contribute sources for.

Jim

Looks like Ballenger has the Delphi/Packard connectors AND the Ford connectors, AND they have "kits" with terminals and seals too! [www.bmotorsports.com]

Nice find Curtis. I actually looked pretty hard when I was at the junkyard for a couple of these but had no luck. Those who are doing their own wiring for an LS1 swap might find this useful. It's where I got the part # for the coil plug..

[www.thirdgen.org]

Just to mix things up a little.
I found these today.



I just positioned them on and old Range Rover engine and the fit is near perfect.
A simple bracket off of the valve cover would mount them easily.
The coils are from a Suzuki V6 the 4 cyl ones are similar.
They are a logic level coil and are quite small.
The part # is 33410-77E2 and they are available new locally for $39.19 can.

This last shot is on a 2" grid which makes the unit just over 6" long.
The boot is very flexible and will tolerate a 45' bend easily.
Hope that helps somebody.
Cheers
Fred

Fred, I think that's what Jim B is looking for.

Very nice Fred. You do come up with some really good finds. Like the mounting also. Of course they are not exactly pretty, but they aren't butt ugly either. I guess a section from a stainless tube might make a nice cover.

Do you think the boot is flexible enough that you could pull it off the plug without unbolting the coil?

Jim

You probably could pull the boot off with the coil in situ.
The top 2/3 of the boot is rigid due to the noise suppressor, but it removes from the coil very easily.



It actually looks like you could toss the boots and fit some of Toyota's funky 5mm plug wires if you needed more versatility.
But I think your idea for a stainless cover (ooooooh, shiny) is the way to go.
I would bend something up out of sheet and underhang the coils so that the cover is the mounting.
Then polish the #$%@*&&^ out of it to keep the racoons happy!

Those Suzuki/Mitsubishi coils certainly are cute! I sniffed around online for a little while trying to get pin-outs and/or a schematic but I didn't find anything. I'd like to confirm that the Suzuki coils have internal drivers, because I understand some OEMs spec 3-pin connectors on coils whether they have an internal driver or not. (In other words, they leave one terminal unconnected.) Anyone got a Suzuki repair manual handy?

No prob Curtis.
Pin 1 is ground.
Pin 2 is the trigger. ( gate power is most likely 5 volts. but don't have a spec. handy.)
Pin 3 is power.(12 volts)
Cheers
Fred



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2013 04:10PM by DiDueColpi.

I was intrigued by the Suzuki coil suggestion, so I bought one. I like it a lot! It's handsome and quite compact. I think it might be a great solution for many engines. Frankly, I don't like it for mine and I've decided to stick with Plan A. Here's why: on a Buick/Rover V8 cylinder head the two middle spark plug holes are angled toward each other. The paths of the #3 and #5 spark plug wires intersect. Now imagine four coils mounted in a row ~4" above the spark plugs. IMHO, there's not really enough room for a comfortable installation of the two middle coils. On a Ford 302 where spark plugs are spaced further apart, I think these coils might fit MUCH, MUCH more neatly.

Want to check out the Suzuki coil option for yourself? I'll list my Suzuki 33410-77E2 ignition coil in the classified section!

I've sketched up a coil mounting bracket for the LS2-Truck coils and bought material and hardware. It's rather elaborate... but I'm getting excited about it.

Curtis,
I just found 2 coil sets and ignition module for my Rover megasquirt conversion at the local Pick-n-Save.. I have a MS unit that I build in 2004. Don't know what version it is. I assume it is the MS ll.
what version do you have and what software have you uploaded to get the sysyem working. I tried DIY-autotune but could not figure out how to
Need help !