Triumph Sports Cars

Did some more disassembly.
Got the body bolts and gas tank out.

Hard to believe ANYONE could do such shoddy work.
Every body bolt is wrong since they had to be replaced to put extra spacers between the body and frame so the tires would not rub the wheel arches.
Rear tires stick out both sides of the car since the axle is too wide.
Guess I should be glad they did not just hack the rear fenders!

I'm thinking I am going to have to create my own IRS rear pretty much from scratch.
I want to get the body off so I can see what has been done to the frame to mount the current live axle.
From what I see so far it probably does not have any actual rear suspension since various bars move in conflicting planes of motion, and at right angle to each other as well!
Any movement would have to be by flex in the components and brackets.

So the major questions of the moment become.

1. Any working drawings out there for a 50" wide track IRS that will handle 250 - 300 HP other than early XKE?
Would like to keep it much lighter than a Jag rear too.
Looks like the rear suspension may be the hardest part of this build.
Going to that much effort I guess rear disc become a given.

2. Chassis reinforcement other than a full roll cage?
I have thought about adding some perimeter tubing but suspect that is better for side impact than actual chassis stiffening under cornering load.
Do not want to add any more weight than absolutely necessary, have gone so far as to consider using hollow bolts where possible.

Just to be non-PC, and since it's a cheap way out, considering a "Spitfire" camo paint scheme.
Did it once before to help hide severe body damage on a beater Spitfire.
Got lots of comment from folk old enough to recognize what I had done.

Samples,
[forums.pelicanparts.com]

[forums.pelicanparts.com]

> I'm thinking I am going to have to create my own IRS rear pretty much from scratch.

You may want to look into what the Cobra kit car companies offer. I've driven and wrenched on both a Superformance Cobra and an ERA Cobra. The ERA Cobra had the Jaguar-based IRS while the Superformance Cobra had a Ford 8.8" based IRS. I found the the Superformance handling was much better than the Jag-based ERA. I believe the Factory Five Cobras also have a Ford 8.8" IRS option. A quick search shows 54" (narrow) and 59 1/4" (standard) hub-to-hub widths for the Factory Five IRS. It appears the Factory Five standard width was driven by the need to match the standard Fox body Mustang solid rear axle width so perhaps the Superformance will be narrower.

Dan Jones

Spitfire/GT6 rear track at 50".
Do not want to flare the fenders.
Not finding anything that narrow even in a live axle.

Poking around the web it seems some Corvair parts have been used in the past by racers.
Need to find some time at a junk yard to look around and take measurements.

Hazy idea at the moment for a Franken-rear of Supra center, Corvair hubs re-drilled to GT6 pattern, and ??? or fabricated uprights.
Need to take a look at Fiero since they already have disc brakes and are plentiful.
Make my own A-arms.
Coil over shocks.

Needs to be good to around 250 HP - 300 HP tops.
Also want to keep it reasonably light.

Narrowed Jag would be the least expensive but not sure there is room for the cast hub carriers.
Need to get my hands on some original components for measurements.

A late night update.
Found some great pics of Fiero rear suspension uprights modified to use an upper A arm.
LONG thread with CAD drawings here, [www.fiero.nl]
I am not interested in the rocker shocks and his drawings will not directly work for my use.
I probably have to build a sub-frame at the rear of the GT6 but with the body off that should not be hard.
I hope to be able to leave the wheel wells alone.
This may be a way to keep a budget build while also getting much improved rear suspension geometry and brakes.
Since I want to keep 13" wheels I expect to retain the original Fiero calipers.
Much more research to do, hoping to visit a junk yard this week with some calipers and digital camera in hand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2014 03:10AM by Richard/SIA.

Richard, Check out my old thread on using a Toyota 4X4 IFS for RWD. Using the Toyota short CV axles with Chevy Cobalt stub/outer CV for 4 lug or Dodge intrepid 5X4.5 for 5 lug.

[forum.britishv8.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2014 08:56PM by mgb260.

Had a look, now questions.

What HP and torque will that handle well, and do you have any physical dimensions?

Looks like a single point mount at the rear and two tapped on the nose face the top?

Might be a good unit to fit between Fiero outer hubs?

Richard, Should handle over 300HP. The 2 holes in front bolt to a bracket that has a large round bushing like in back. I don't have dimensions but, looks very narrow.

Now I need to figure out what rear gear ratio I really want.
Looks like 3.42 or 3.58 and .74 OD from a Camaro T5 trans to be reasonably practical.
Guessing around 160 - 180 HP on the engine, 195/60-13 tires, 5500 RPM normal redline, though I have been told it is good to 7000.
Would like around 70 MPH at 2500 rpm.
The short 22.21" tires look like it's more like 2800 RPM even with the OD.
3.08 gears would be about ideal.

MUST - STOP - BUYING - MORE - CARS !

OK, not really buying "Another" so much as buying a GT6 parts car.
Apparently was a fairly nice car, until some one cut the roof off!

Missing the trans and diff, but the engine is still there.
Chassis and engine may eventually get a Spitfire body?
If I were smarter I would just resell ALL the pieces I do not need.
But it seems every time I do that I regret it later.

Bought a clean ex-Camaro WC T5 for $250.00
Confirmed it really is from a V8.
1352-196, so 2.95 first gear and .63 overdrive in fifth.

Also going to try to buy the bolts to set up my two post lift.
Hate to do it outside but there is no room inside.
Have to start getting these cars built.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2014 02:19AM by Richard/SIA.

Looks like the T5 will fit fairly easily.
Need to sort out my engine mounts to be sure.

A few notes on attempted progress.

Been getting the parts car apart.
Not sure which frame I will end up using, not thrilled with the sloppy mods to the old one but kind of hate to cut up a cherry one.

Pulled both front valance pieces and they have Bondo in them.
Looked around for a serious fiberglass chin spoiler as replacement and found none that I like, nothing even close in the U.S.
Anyone have a serious front spoiler and source they can point me toward?
Can fab my own but trying to not get sidetracked.

Also determined what the last builder used for engine mounts.
Now I can drop my junk block in for mock-up and see how it looks.
Once that is done I want to remove the body to work on the frame and suspension.

Wire loom in the parts car is about cherry so may be simpler to use it than sort out the butchered one.
Now realize the original tach is cable driven so cannot be readily used, disappointed in that.
Might be able to get the guts switched to electronic and keep the face?
Or modify an early 'Vette distributor to work?

Next trip to Reno I want to stop at the wood shop and buy some new veneer for the dash.
TR will be good practice before doing the same to my Marcos.

BTW, what do we call a TR-Buick, a TRICK?

Made a quick and dirty bar to act as an upper link to fit between the rear uprights on the GT6 parts car since the spring and diff are gone.
So now I can at least roll it around until I finish stripping it.

Digging through my stash of old parts I realize I have a decent set of original Super Oscars and a similar size set of Marschell? yellow fog lamps.
The TRICK-6 may just have to be done Rally Car style!
With radar cars, radar planes (and now drones?) skulking around all day I now do most of my flying at night, lots of light would be a good feature.
Probably need the extra displacement to drive the alternator when it's all switched on!

Need to get my rear wheels off the car to see if they can be saved.
Fairly wide 13" with "Basket Weave" centers and I kind of like them.
One has been butchered with a second set of mounting holes.
Need to take it to my wheel guy and see what he says.

Cleared the concrete apron and assembled my engine hoist.
May actually get the engine mocked this week.
Will take a picture to post.

Something along these lines, but with a pair of large fog lamps mounted low on the bonnet hinges.

This one gets harder every time I try to go forward on it!

Took off the rear wheels today so I could get a better look at the horrid live rear axle mod the previous builder did.
To say it is frightening and has no travel does not begin to relate the horror.
Maybe he used a BIC lighter and coat hangers to make his welds?
Engineering by faded memory of something he heard long ago and had never understood?
Short version, DEATH TRAP!
Hard to believe this thing ever turned a wheel under turbo V6 power.
Not so hard to believe it was parked after a single very short drive.

And speaking of the rear wheels, I probably shouldn't.
Since the axle stud pattern did not match the TR it seems he reamed out the holes with a hand drill, or maybe a dull round file?
One may be repairable but I'm pretty certain the other is ruined.

Need to replace a set, numbers from the back side are JAPAN 935-2 13x5.5 48 4.
A pair of 14" to fit might also work.

I have nice set of Enkei 14" from an Alfa I may be able to adapt if I must.
If I were to give up on the IRS I could just fit an Alfa Spider LSD rear axle I have.

Busted my butt over the holiday and got my 9000 Lb. two post lift installed!

Getting bodies off frames just got easy.
Can probably also rig it to hoist engines.

Bought a set of new lenses on eBay to fit a set of Cibie Super-Oscar shells I had laying around.
These are "Bi-Oscar" lenses that are supposed to act as driving and fog lamps.
If they work well I will only need one set of additional large lamps similar to the red car above.
I could also mount my set of Super-Oscars for additional portable daylight.
Need to rig them for quick removal on event days.

Bought new Fel-Pro head gaskets for the 225 V6.
Not happy with them, they are oversize, clearly intended for use on a 231 engine.
Tried to get proper 225 gaskets from TA Performance but they are out of them and have no source for more except COMETIC, $$$.
Suggestions for a proper 225 head gaskets source welcome!

Have to find some more money, decided I want to fit vintage 14" - 4x108 Cosmic wheels.
They will look "Correct" for a GT6 and are not too hard to find.

Need to get the extra spacers out from under the body so that it sits in it's true position for good measurements.

Mocked the engine into place tonight.
Not too happy with the current mounts.
I think I should be able to go 1.50" further back and 1.00" down without modifying the oil pan or moving the steering rack.
That would put the steering rack just behind the crank pulley.
Looks like I will have to notch a forward cross member but not too badly.
Also looks like engine and intake should fit under the bonnet.
May have to get clever on the air cleaner.

Will try to add a pic in the morning.

Links to pics of BOPR conversions might be helpful, the V6 is nearly the same but a little shorter.

Late night observation.
I need to move the engine back at least 4"!

Had a thought and measured the front of the bell to the T5 gearshift distance.
I had expected to need to move the gearshift forward, now I find it actually needs to go BACK unless I want to nearly bang my hand into the dashboard.

This all means a bit more firewall modification than I had hoped.
It also means moving the steering rack, which is claimed by some folk to be necessary in order to fix the front geometry and eliminate bump-steer/bad ackerman issues.

On the plus side it will further enhance the weight balance!

Mocked it up with a junk block just to see how it looks.

Here are the old mounts I am starting with.

Right side.


How the engine sits now.


Left (Drivers) side.


Engine should go further back and down as much as possible.
This will be made a bit more complex as I will have to relocate the steering rack.
I had hoped to keep this a fairly simple conversion so that others might more readily follow my method..

I set some tin and a manifold with carb on the junk engine.
I also set a piece of aluminum flush with the top of the cowl.
The engine MUST be lowered, I went to a lot of trouble for an uncut bonnet!
Since it is essentially the same as a BOPR but shorter this should not be too hard.
If I can get the front pulley to clear the steering rack I should not have too much trouble getting 4" further back.

Ordered NOS head gaskets today.
Hoping these have the correct sealing diameter around the cylinders, Fel-Pro appear to be "Generic" and were very much oversize.

Perhaps not directly progress on the car, but my new car trailer is nearly complete.
Need it to take the Trick-6 to the new shop and take the body off using the two-post lift.
Then I can get a better idea of exactly what i have to do to fix the frame. fab rear suspension, etc.