Triumph Sports Cars

Fairly good morning today.

Sold a bunch of spare stock parts to a guy who is keeping his original.
Just about recovered what I paid for the parts car with it's uncut bonnet.

Got the Trick-6 on the just completed car trailer for transport to the other shop.
So now I will be able to lift the body off and do real work on repositioning the engine and trans, redo the rear suspension, etc.

Real progress today?

Got the body off the frame at last.
Got the horrid rear suspension off the frame.
With a clear look I'm thinking it will be a lot less work to use the other frame and start my own modifications without having to cut away the old junk.

Have to decide what I am doing for rear suspension ASAP since a lot of other details depend on it.
It appears I will have to get clever to get enough room between the frame rails for the T5 tail-housing and a drive-shaft.
Thinking I may need to bolster the outside of the frame with reinforcement rails.

Looks like I will be searching for a reduced diameter front damper and crank pulley.
May have to go with a cog belt.
Buick V6 should interchange with the BOP 215 with the possible exception of balance.
So this should have been done before by someone.
Really want the engine 3" - 4" further back and lower by the same amount.
Going to have to figure an answer for the front mounted oil filter too, it will want to jam against the front suspension.

Axle I took out is some sort of Japanese unit with a posi, once identified I hope some ricer builder will want it.

Pics of the horrors below.

Two-post lifts are nice!


The old transmission mount mess.


Single trailing arm, forked mid-way to act as a four link, but only in the previous builders fevered imagination.
With short right angle links working against each other on each side!
The only rear suspension travel was whatever the rubber bushes and metal flex allowed!
Whatever I do can hardly be worse.


Side view.

Okay,"Bump Steer" correction time.
A while back I found a thread with all the details for doing this but cannot locate it now.
I will try to document how I go about this.
First some careful measurements and then take the the steering rack out.
I will also remove the springs, shocks, and anti-roll bar so that I can manipulate the suspension for measurements.

Bump-Steer correction seems to want the rack moved to the rear, which may help in moving the engine back.
I also need to shorten the rack about 5" between the tie-rods. (This is where I need exact measurements)
Ideally the rack should apparently be moved UP a little as well.
May not be able to move the rack up as I am trying to LOWER the engine.
So I expect to get improved but not ideal steering.

I think this will also fix the outside wheel turning too far, stock it goes practically sideways!
The stock Ackerman angles are a mess.

The not so fun part looks to be modifying the frame.
I will practice on the old frame that has already been chopped up a bit before making changes to the frame I intend to use.

The other major suspension project will be making new hubs to take my 4x100 MM PCD, 6"x14" Enkie wheels.
The rear is going to get a custom fabricated IRS.
So much for remaining a member in good standing of "Team ¢heap"!

Still utilizing what I have laying around as much as possible.

Got the old front shocks and springs out tonight.
Shocks may be KONI red adjustable and appear to be in good condition except for paint.

One issue I have had from the start is that I could never get the front end down to a reasonable level.
Even with the engine in and my bouncing on the frame it sat way too high.

Free length of the springs I removed is 13"! (EDIT, confirmed they should be around 9" free length)
Not sure of the rate, don't really care.
The Buick V6 is only a few pounds heavier than the old in-line 6 and will sit further back.
I will start with stock springs from the spare frame, maybe some custom springs later.

With the shocks and sway bar links removed I can finally mock up the front ride height.
That will let me get a better idea of what changes I need to make to correct bump-steer and ground clearance.
Right now the bushings are fighting me, they do not allow free movement of the control arms and spindle.
I will see what I have to do to get easier movement.

It looks like a simple change to Heim joints on spacers may help with the tie-rod angles.
Need to find my book on suspension and look a few things up.

Along those lines, I found a complete '88 Fiero less engine, cheap.
Not sure how well the rear suspension would adapt to the GT6, if at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2014 02:49AM by Richard/SIA.

Eh, the '88 Fiero is a pretty long drive away.
Gas price makes it a little too dear and the bolt circle is wrong.
A shame, looked to be fairly simple to fit and readily available.

I now have a hazy idea of how to do my IRS for the Trick-6.
Of course wanting to use my 4x108 PCD 14" x 6" Enkie (Very light) wheels gets to be an additional issue.

Looks like Ford or Supra diff. will be easiest.
Both can be had with forward mounts that may be close to what I need.
Ford should be unbreakable even with an aluminum carrier, I only have a little V6.
Supra may be smaller and so easier to fit.

Ford appears easier to find, in cast iron.
Supra seems to be a little hard to get, CL sellers don't answer if you live more than a couple of miles away and tend to want high prices despite not even knowing the gear ratio's.

Supra's do show up in the P&P salvage yards, IF you can get there fast enough.
If not they will be on CL a day later, at 5x the price.

Outer end may be simpler if I can use Ford, some are the correct PCD, have to verify that some IRS are still 4 x 108mm.
Also need to confirm a 14" wheel clears.

No matter what I use it's going to be custom control arms.

Found this on the web, from V8S2000 board:

"Ford 8.8 IRS Info
ALL 99/01/03/04 Cobra axles have a 28 Spline outer that goes into the hub

99 Cobra axles have a 28 spline inner that goes into the diff

01 Cobra's came with stronger axles than 99

01/03/04 Cobra axles have a 31 spline inner that goes into the diff

03/04 Cobra's came with stronger axles than 99/01

03/04 Cobra's came with Carbon kevlar clutch packs

03/04 Cobra's came with larger pinion flange than 99/01

All Cobra's came with limited slip

There was not a 2000 or 2002 Cobra released on the american market.


The 8.8 IRS was offered in the following vehicles

99/01/03/04 Cobra

1989-1997 Thunderbird Supercoupe (All Posi-traction)
1992-1997 Thunderbird V-8 models with rear disc brakes(some posi-traction)3.08, 3.27
1992-1997 Lincoln Mark VIII (All aluminum carrier, most non-posi-traction) 3.07, 3.08, 3.27, 3.55, 3.73
1989-1992 Mercury Cougar XR-7, supercharged V-6 (All posi-traction)
1993-1997 Mercury Cougar V-8

02+ Explorer/Mountaineer = 3.55 and 3.73 open, 3.73 LSD , 31 spline

To determine the gear ratio, and whether or not the unit has posi-traction, look at the tag that is attached to one of the differential cover bolts. The first 4 spaces signify the gear ratio and whether or not it has posi-traction. If the unit has posi-traction, then the second space will have an L in it representing (limited slip), the remaining spaces specify the gear ratio. For example, 2 L 7 3 means posi-traction with a 2.73:1 gear ratio. Most people pay a salvage yard between $300-$400 for the donor parts. Also, Ford Motorsports sells a 15lb. lighter aluminum carrier with gears and posi-traction for around $650.

Richard, I have bad news for you. All the Ford IRS are 5 lug. TBird ,Cougar and Lincoln are 5x4.25, Mustang Cobra are 5x4.5. Look at 90-96 Infinity Q45 R200 3.54 ratio Viscous LS. Popular in TR6's. 6 bolt flange. Then use 2004-2008 F150 front axles With Chevy Cobalt 4 lug hubs. You may need an adapter plate if the 6 bolt pattern is different and the Cobalt hub is 4x100mm, just drill 4x108 pattern inbetween existing holes in hub. Make your own upright that is triangular for the hub to bolt to. Here is a pic of the F150 axle:




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2014 07:22AM by mgb260.

Got to love the 'net, several on-line sources say IRS T-Bird and Mustang use 4x108mm PCD.
They also show 5x108MM on the SAME charts.

I expected the five lug for V8's and the four lug on four and six cylinder cars.

Have to run the CNC lathe all day, hoping to get into the salvage yard later this week and have a look.
I will take a look for the suggested parts.

Oh BTW, what make is an "Infinity"?
I do not track vehicles made after about 1970 so have no clue.
Yah, Madison avenue hates me.
I stopped looking at new cars when Gov. Org. took over designing them to protect us from ourselves.

EDIT, Looked up "Infinity" to find it's a fancy Nissan, who used to be Datsun.
Too new for the self-serve salvage yards but I may know one that deals in newer import cars.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2014 01:37PM by Richard/SIA.

OK, the new 225 head gaskets finally arrived.
Original Buick embossed steel # 1357869
Steel is .025" thick.
They are embossed so I'm not certain of compressed thickness.
The old composite gaskets were .040".

Looks Like I'm buying a Merkur IRS rear end since it's a bit smaller and lighter than T-Bird.
Also uses the correct PCD but I'm disappointed that the U.S. models got drum brakes.
One more thing to upgrade ASAP.
Found a U.S. Merkur club, hope they will talk to me.

Got a little time late this evening to play with engine position.
It looks like if I remove the mechanical fuel pump and relieve the front of the right side shock tower (Basically cutting off the original engine mount) then fit a remote filter adapter I CAN fit the engine 4" further back and 2" lower!
Right now the front tab of an original Buick engine mount is just BEHIND the rear of the shock tower.
The original conversion had the rear tab in FRONT of the tower.
The front of the cylinder head sits just about even with the top of the suspension upright, middle of the A arm.
The back of the block is about 1" behind the forward most body mounts.
I think that is about as good as I could hope to get.
I will steady my mock-up and drop the body back on long enough to confirm everything clears properly.

I've reached a point where I have to sort out my pulleys vs the steering rack.
Have to research the best rack mounting location too.
I know it needs to be heavily modified to correct the ackerman and bump-steer.
Moving it forward would help with engine fitting, but I think it's recommended to move it back and up for improved geometry.
This will still be a road car, so there are limits to what I can do.
Even less than ideal steering can be much improved over original.

An idea for steering improvement?

Poking around various forums all sorts of suggestions come up to fix bump-steer.
Seems some racers bend the steering arms for improved geometry.
But I'm not limited by ANY rules and realize that the steering arms are BOLTED on.
So why not just make new arms with corrected geometry?
14" wheels give me a little extra room and I would have an easier engine fit if I move the rack forward about an inch.
I know forward would be bad with the stock arms and rack, but with new arms and a shortened rack maybe I can still improve on it?

Pics of where the engine is sitting now.
Quite a bit further back and about 2" lower.
Original fit had the forward soft mount tab at the front of the tower which forced the engine to sit high.

I cut away the factory and old engine conversion mounts.
With a remote oil adapter and no mechanical fuel pump I now have a fairly good fit.
Looks like I need different engine soft mounts or another inch of rearward movement.

Right side.


Right side close view of mount.


Left side.

Well, a little frame notching improved the engine fit.
Got it back another inch, the front of the damper on the crank is now dead even with the front of the forward cross member.
Cannot go any lower without having to do surgery on the suspension towers.
Keep in mind that this engine is virtually identical to the BOPR V8 except for being two cylinders shorter.
I may have to notch the frame some more to clear a starter, guess it's time to buy a mini-starter to confirm.
Got the engine dead level in the frame, thinking I want to lower the trans end just a bit more which will also lower the intake a fraction but also requires more notches.
Looks like just a little firewall trim.

Transmission it a little higher than I would like, wish it were a bit smaller.
Time to buy the mount.
Going to end up with a stubby gear lever in any case, hope it shifts easily.
Will end up with a pretty tall tunnel around the trans, might see about turning that into some chassis reinforcement.

The 225 lower pulley is 2.10" long, the 231 pulley is 3.20" long with one more sheave.
Using the 225 pulley it looks like I can get away with only moving the steering rack forward 1/2".
Just enough to be able to change a belt.
Looking for some feed-back on doing custom steering arms to help with the geometry.

Fresh pics.

I put some chalk on the mounting tabs so they show better.


Right side notch to clear the starter mount.


Left side notch.


An overall trans view.
Knowing that T56's are even larger I would really like to see how one of those has been done!

While searching the 'net one-handed due to a wasp sting I found this thread [sideways-technologies.co.uk]

Seems the nearly ideal answer to Spitfire/GT6 suspension has been done, and it used the Sierra/Merkur diff.
But nothing new on it for several years.

I've attempted to contact the developer, maybe he will respond?

Well, finally some progress worth mentioning.

The old body is off of the unmolested chassis.
No rust in the frame and it appears perfectly strait.
It also provides me with a partial stock rear suspension for comparison and measurement purposes.
Once I pull a diff and leaf spring from the Spitfire I will have a complete "Stock" rear to look at.

Thinking of running some additional frame members along the outside to add some strength and maybe a hint of rigidity.

Also now know how thin the original body mounts are, I will need the engine even lower than I had realized.

I will be cutting the spare body apart, a shame some one cut the roof off as it's about as rust-free as can be found.
I need the lower rear license plate area and think I should keep the rear fenders as spares.
Scuttle and sills go up for grabs if anyone needs them.

Never heard back from "Jango" about his Merkur/GT6 conversion, I will email him again.

Found out that the KB manifold is an inch taller than the old manifold which is already port-matched to my heads.

Need to find a source for a "Mini-Starter" to fit my engine.
Summit Racing had no listing.
I did get a new clutch arm and throw-out bearing.
Need that to see how much room I need to clear it.

Nothing major to report but I have made a deal to buy a nice engine test stand on the cheap.

Tired of finding a leak AFTER the engine is in.
This stand has mount plates and headers for several engines, I hope one of them takes Buick.

Looks like I also found a mini-starter source.

Time to go make some $$$, it seems all the cheap research and dismantling is done.

Some actual progress of the "I bought another part" sort.

Got a Merkur complete manual trans rear today.
If P&P were not selling at half price I would have left it there and bought the locally available Supra rear instead.
P&P jacked the price up by ignoring their published "Car rear end, drum to drum" price and charged me piece-meal for each component rather then the assembly.
So my $75.00 rear was nearly $200.00.
I did try to verify price in advance but they refused to quote pricing over the phone, sending me to their website instead.

Open diff, not posi as the web info postings call for.
Aluminum carrier and a little smaller than T-Bird unit.
Some web threads suggest that a GM 7.5" posi can be made to fit.
Ratio appears to be 3.65 which I believe is what the web claimed and should work well with the T5 OD.
Anxious to do some measuring and to look at a thread on the Sideways Technology forum which gives some clues for how to fit it.

I know I will have to fabricate uprights and "A" arms, the current trailing arms plus axles, are HEAVY and 10" too wide.

I will try to get decent pics from the start once I get it cleaned up.

Okay, a little cleaned up.
Details on dimensions and weights once I get them.
Stock seems to be about 60" from one wheel mounting surface to the other.
With custom arms and shorter axles I should be able to make it the same as stock GT6.
Since a guy in England has already done these I know it "CAN" be made to fit.
I'm hoping to make mine more of a true bolt-in than he did.

Looks like a English or German Ford Scorpio or Sierra diff. Mine is 3.64

Merkur XR4TI,  Sierra in Europe, had a 2.3 Turbo in front of it originally.
I finally got it all stripped down, broke several Torx bits getting the axles off.
Had to cut the heads off a couple then grab the shank with vise-grips after the CV was out of the way.

Not much progress on the car itself of late but I have got my used engine test stand in the shop and mostly cleaned up.
Still have some gauge wiring to do and may have to make a buick V6 mounting plate.
From now on my engines get run in and adjusted BEFORE they go into the car!
I also bought some older Allen engine analyzers and smog testers I will hook up for precise adjustments.
Still a little work to do on those too but it's coming along well.
My hearing is not so great anymore so I'm having to rely more on electronics for tuning.

Nothing truly new on the car itself beyond sorting some spare parts.

But I have sold my Marcos so have fewer projects which should mean this one will move a bit faster once the weather warms up.

Bought another Allen S.E.A. oscilloscope that actually works so instrumentation for the test stand will be excellent.
Still working on a functional gas bench but I will only need that to fine tune the carbs.

Minor progress of a sort.
Mocked the rear diff up.
I clearly will have to cut away at least the center of the rear upper horizontal member.
Thinking I may be able to utilize at least the side mounting plates from the original diff mount.
Wondering just how much noise and vibration I would suffer if the diff were hard mounted?

Also took a fresh look at my engine/trans mockup.
Would like to get both of them lower and maybe a couple inches further back.
Problem is that the very narrow frame rails can only be notched so much before it all becomes two halves or very weak.
Considering adding to the outside of the frame, but then the floorpans profile becomes a likely issue.

The Buick V6 is essentially the same engine as the BOPR V8, but around 3" inches shorter.
So it should be an EASIER fit.
Front mounted oil pump keeps being a pain.
Would really like some clear pics of how BOPR's have been done into Spit/GT6's by others.
My T5 is less bulky than a T56 but still seems pretty large.

Want to avoid an additional hood scoop if possible, and I know it should be as I've seen the pics.