BritishV8 Forum: 4.020-inch Bore

roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 4.020-inch Bore/Smart block filler

Posted by: roverman
Date: December 29, 2009 02:02PM

Ok, so the "problem" with block filler is, how to get "enough" coolant flow where you want it? Wax, my friends,wax. Put pre-formed, semi-hard wax in correct shapes/locations in coolant areas of block prior to "pour" of block filler. IE. runners from ,inlets(core plug ports) to under the deck areas, intersecting coolant transfer ports into heads(MID)? Thousands of products, around the world ,are made with the, "lost wax process", turbines ,ss. rockers, jewlry, etc,etc. Your thoughts? roverman.

BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6470 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 29, 2009 05:20PM

There is a product used as a protective sleeve on finely machined parts for handling/shipping and for other uses, which is like a sleeve made out of almost a fishnet like webbed plastic. It acts like those Chinese finger traps and is mostly open spaces. You take something like that and put it on your sleeves, then a bead of wax around the bottom going to your water inlet and another at the top going to your water outlet and I think you have both your cooling and your sleeve support. How long does that block cement last before it deteriorates and breaks out?

Jim

roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: roverman
Date: December 29, 2009 05:45PM

Jim, I know of which you speak,(plastic fish net). Seems like a good idea, how do we get "all" of it out for proper coolant flow?Wax is easy. I have heard no negative reports of "filler" degradation(hi-strength grout). Widely used, anybody? Mike?

NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 29, 2009 06:30PM

It's a good concept, Jim.

MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4514 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: MGBV8
Date: December 29, 2009 10:23PM

Block filler has been used by drag racers for a long time to strengthen the engine block. Seems like a very good idea for the aluminum Buick/Rover.

Planning ahead for drain plugs is a good idea, as well.

[www.hardblok.com]

[74.125.47.132]

v8ian
ian stewart
just north of London, United Kingdom, Planet Earth
(54 posts)

Registered:
12/24/2009 04:06PM

Main British Car:
67 Ford Cortina 3.9ltr Rover

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: v8ian
Date: December 30, 2009 10:00AM

Jim,
Yes, cast iron Crossflow blocks, I know you can push fit liners like this but I have seen blocks burst with the slightest pickup when pushing liners in, I was fortunate to work in a big foundry when I was a apprentice, and we had LARGE normalising ovens where it was not a problem to slip the odd bit of "Homework" into the system, and as apprentices we were allowed to do odd jobs as long as there was significant engineering content

BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6470 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 30, 2009 10:10AM

The fishnet can be had in any plastic-like material so one with a low ash content and wax like characteristics shouldn't be that big of a deal and the threads and spacing can be tailored to the application. There are a lot of different compounds and patterns made as standard off the shelf material. May take me a couple weeks but I can get contact info if anyone wants it.

Jim

v8ian
ian stewart
just north of London, United Kingdom, Planet Earth
(54 posts)

Registered:
12/24/2009 04:06PM

Main British Car:
67 Ford Cortina 3.9ltr Rover

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: v8ian
Date: December 30, 2009 10:13AM

Just been thinking a bit more about the liners, IF--- you inserted a alluminium liners into a bigger overbored block tig welded them into place, remachine the block to the size for the steel liners, you could get away with thinwall liners shrunk into alloy tubes, that would give plenty of support for the liners, should solve any water jacket leaks, if nothing else, working this idea could keep you entertained for weeks

roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 4.020-inch Bore/Mikes' Big Adventure

Posted by: roverman
Date: December 30, 2009 12:08PM

Nic, Are we entertained yet? Can you say..."spy-ware" ? At least this thread isn't...Boring-yet. Jim, I really like the fish-net idea, line up-the-back, oops! I want to try it as long as it's something that can get all out."Mike"/machinist/anybody? roverman.

NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore/Mikes' Big Adventure

Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 30, 2009 02:48PM

WOW, that sounds familiar, right Art? LOL! We were just talking about this and a few other crazy plans PM.

I've been shopping liners to experiment with this idea and others. I've got two shot 4.0 blocks on the way to me now to try stuff out on. I just called my local aluminum supplier to inquire about 4.5" OD T6 aluminum tube. $9/ft.! WOW. So I'll be picking up a few feet next week. We'll see how it goes. So far I've worked out that 4" is too big for the aluminum/iron sleeve combo. Not enough aluminum left over between cylinders. I'm experimenting with 3.9" and 3.8" though. I'll report in a week or so after the blocks get here.

hoffbug
Tony Hoffer
Minnesota
(323 posts)

Registered:
10/15/2007 05:25PM

Main British Car:
Olds 215 EFI

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: hoffbug
Date: December 30, 2009 03:11PM

Nic.. I was about to suggest an intervention..
But since Ive lost my mind, and am going to look at a vintage snowmobile this weekend, I guess Ill keep my mouth shut..

As long as I get to periodically peep at what you are up to ;-).... LOL

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2009 03:12PM by hoffbug.

BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6470 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 30, 2009 04:26PM

Hey Nick, how about if you cut flats on the sides of the alloy tubes (and maybe real shallow water channels) and siamese them? Then can you get out to 4"? Like it or not, you guys are getting me interested in this boring idea. I did get my tig welder back at least, they said it just had dirty contacts in the high frequency circuit so it was a pretty cheap fix. I'll know what to look for next time.

Art, I'll have to ask a buddy who is doing a project with that fishnet stuff. I'm sure we can get some that will all melt out at a reasonable bake-out temp. (Done a little investment casting myself) Carl's suggestion about the drains is a good one too. How big do you think we'd want the threads to be, and how far apart?

Jim

NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 30, 2009 05:00PM

This is boring? I thought about it. The problem is the 4" sleeves are at their smallest, say 100 thou. Then all that's left of the aluminum bore insert is like 25 thou before the "seam" in the siamese. It seemed like too little to me. I could be wrong I guess since the aluminum tubes would have the flats welded to eachother. Maybe it wouldn't matter...

roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: roverman
Date: December 30, 2009 05:06PM

Jim, I'm thinkin the, curvy diamond patern for less turbulence in a vertical flow pattern, 1/8" min?? Just a WAG. at this point, but at least we have a "guinae pig", with-out Tape over his mouth-Nic. Nic we hope you don't try the "machinist" clause, on us ! roverman.

BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6470 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 31, 2009 12:07PM

I don't think Nic is a machinist so he ought to be OK but I'm a little more worried about you Art, going from some of your comments I think you might have some real machinist tendencies there. Better watch out!

Biggest force on the bore is the thrust side of the piston trying to push it out. Force on the side would be a pulling force to the thrust side. Is there a way to bond stainless to aluminum? Maybe we could run thinwall stainless wet liners. Wouldn't that be a hoot? Got to be way stronger than CI or aluminum.

Jim

roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: roverman
Date: December 31, 2009 01:59PM

Would be a "HOOT", probably not wise."OWL" -bad pun from BWC. It's not the potential 1k psi when sparkler goes off?" Even bad wiring-better than no wiring"....roverman.

v8ian
ian stewart
just north of London, United Kingdom, Planet Earth
(54 posts)

Registered:
12/24/2009 04:06PM

Main British Car:
67 Ford Cortina 3.9ltr Rover

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: v8ian
Date: January 02, 2010 01:01PM

If you cut small V grooves down the length of the alloy liner O/D other than top or bottom you could increase the coolant contact area by about 50%,
If you went the 907 route shrink a alloy or steel tube down the cam bore as a stressed member, assuming you are using the later oil pump

roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: roverman
Date: January 02, 2010 01:31PM

Ian, I like your idea, but as a "pressure vessel" at approx. 1,000 psi., I'm thinkin, spiral/circumfrential may be stronger. Imagine a multi-lead, thread, with a radius profile, winding their way around the liner, bottom to top and intercepting coolant transfer holes in deck/through head. Fill with wax-like material, prior to insertion,(no chance afterward),and finesse?, additional wax top/bott. prior to block filler? I will probably use a non Rover, external oil pump,(sbm./gerotor) and crank trigger ignition. roverman.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 02:22PM by roverman.

v8ian
ian stewart
just north of London, United Kingdom, Planet Earth
(54 posts)

Registered:
12/24/2009 04:06PM

Main British Car:
67 Ford Cortina 3.9ltr Rover

authors avatar

Re: 4.020-inch Bore

Posted by: v8ian
Date: January 02, 2010 03:23PM

Oil pump? not using the crank driven one, how?? Weaver DrySump pump?? I have never run one on the street, I was allways worried about throwing a belt,
Crank trigger is my next project, I do run a trigger wheel on my current engine, but now Im using the later X bolt engine I have to mount a trigger wheel off the back of the ballancer, I know Range Rovers use a trigger on the flywheel and I was tempted to remove the trigger wheel off the Rover one and fit to my steel flywheel, but I dont want ro drill my flywheel as its a real lightweight one

roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: 4.020-inch Bore/ Ian's first "jacking" 2010

Posted by: roverman
Date: January 02, 2010 05:30PM

Ian and clan. Mopar oil pump similar to sbc. only "gerotor", in std. and hv. Not as pretty as mega $ aftermarket pumps, but very funtional. I like $pending for results. I would use a "HTD" belt=best and shield from road trash, stradle-mount bearings to support pump input shaft, forward to damper pulley or reaward to,cam driven pulley? Pump mounts horizontaly, either side of pan rail. Smart pick-up inside pan with bulkhead fitting through side of pan to pump inlet. Tailor the pulley sizes for best volume.Shrink-fitting an alum. shaft into former siphon port in block, should add some strength/easier for a girdle fit. Good Luck,roverman.

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