Engine and Transmission Tech

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Scott, what's your plan for headers?

Hi Ryan,
Well, it looks like I'll be building a set. :) Not sure I'd call what I'm thinking headers, manifold would be better I think. I'm going to try to run them down the side of the engine rather than through the fender wells. I know it's going to be tight. I can measure all I want but I won't know for sure if it's possible until the motor mounts are permanently positioned and the motor is sitting in the car.

Regards

Scott

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That last pic has me thinking that, at least, one normal, vertical starter bolt may be doable.

Nice find! I'm going to check my block when I get home to see if the same casting is there as well. If it is usable, that may help determine which starter is ultimately the best one to use.

Only take a wee bit of heilarc work to get the second bolt in. (Wonderful thing about aluminum) Getting the surface flat could be done with some delicate work with a large file. (Or a quick cut on the milling machine) A strap of some sort at the rear and it'd be good to go. Might have to shim it a bit depending on how close the bolt holes ended up being.

Carl, those last pages came up blank.
I know of a couple of other MGB's that are 6" wider than stock too. But some people just don't care for flares. The extra track sure does help in the corners though.

Jim

Yeah, I know a 4.8 is an iron block, which you'd want for wild boost. But I'm more impressed by the serious power increases all of these motors show with very, very minor performance mods. I've lusted after a 5.3 truck motor in a volvo 240 wagon for awhile now.

Weird, let's try again.

[www.pirate4x4.com]

[www.pirate4x4.com]

Should work in both posts, now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2013 10:06PM by MGBV8.

If you weld up where it is angled to be straight across you might be able to use GM's own mini starter for 3400 and 3800 V6. Meant for 142 teeth flywheel. Nose cone is facing wrong way though,meant for drivers side.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2013 11:45PM by mgb260.

The one for the V8 might work. It may be the same one that we used on the Roadmaster and I used on my 340.

Jim

Here are some pictures that illustrate the starter issue a little better. I forgot I had these. Most of the pictures I'm seeing are a little misleading...they give the impression that there is more of the flywheel available than there actually is. It's pretty tight, FYI.

Instead of taking forever to over-engineer this this starter issue, it's time for some Hillbilly Engineering. We gotta race to win.

Take Scott's mini- starter, offer it up to the block & flywheel (shave that little bump off the block first), then tack TIG the starter housing to the engine block. Fire it up, let's ride! ;)

Interesting starter/block pics. On an iron 5.3, though.

[ls1tech.com]

You guys got to remember the other LS engines have a much larger diameter flywheel. You could use the LS1,LS2,LS3 and LS6 flywheel with the Speedway motors 60 degree V6 adapter and the larger bellhousings and then that F body starter would work. You need a tiny starter to get in close enough to the V6 size flywheel. Another alternative is to use a stock LS4 starter mounted lower on the bellhousing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2013 10:42PM by mgb260.

The Northstar starter bolted to a plate might be better than the other LS mount. Quite a few broke off.

[ls1tech.com]

Can we get a measurement? Take a framing square and lay it alongside the block and measure out to the ring gear? That will give us a rough idea of the max diameter of the starter. A photo of the square in position wouldn't hurt.

Jim

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Can we get a measurement? Take a framing square and lay it alongside the block and measure out to the ring gear? That will give us a rough idea of the max diameter of the starter. A photo of the square in position wouldn't hurt.

Jim, I've provided that measurement at least twice in this thread. I even have it detailed in a picture on page two I think. Anyway, the ring gear sticks out 1" from the edge of the block for a 142 tooth flywheel and 1.25" for a 148 tooth flywheel.

I got to a parts store last night and roughly measured the Northstar starter. I somehow imagined it to be smaller than it was...being that it lives under the intake manifold. I believe it is a possibility but not one that I will pursue. Here is a picture with some details. Keep in mind these are rough measurements.



I'm going to stick with the direction I originally intended on going with the mini-starter. It will take a few weeks but my next step is to get one here.

Just for the record, I wouldn't have purchased this engine if I didn't think there was an excellent chance of solving the starter issue. Now that I have it in front of me I'm even more convinced there is a solution to it.

Regards

Scott

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You need a tiny starter to get in close enough to the V6 size flywheel

Looks like Scott's mini-starter has good offset. May have to move the holes over in the starter nose, though.

Here's an idea I haven't seen mentioned.......BAS.

Maybe it's not a realistic approach for a big 'merican V8. It's an idea, though. And dreaming up ideas is more fun than turning wrenches in a cold garage on a winter's day!

OK Scott, we still have to factor in the gear diameter of the starter pinion which helps us, and the gear mesh which works the other way.

The starter is going to hit the block at one of two points. Either the starter body will hit the fixturing boss, or the flange will hit the side of the block. To determine clearance, find the distance from the boss to the tip of the flywheel ring gear. You have stated that this distance is 1".

What we are missing then is the diameter of the starter body. Probably close to 3" (making the radius 1-1/2") but we need that measurement.

The pinion at the root of the gear teeth is going to be something close to 3/4" (making the radius 3/8"), and then there is the backlash added to that. So using the unknown, imprecise and probably inaccurate dimensions we have, 1" + 3/8" subtracted from 1-1/2" we see that we have to cut 1/8" off the fixturing boss to get the starter to fit, if the flange clears the block. Better measurements may show that it will fit without modification, or that the starter flange needs to be cut as well.

To determine if the flange will fit, use the same process with a measurement to the block beside where the flange will go instead of the fixturing boss. It may be that the vertical bolted Buick mini starter will fit here without modification once the block flange is built up and drilled.

Jim

Jim,
Sorry for not being more clear on the measurements. The ~1.25" measurement on the photo above was from the root of one of the starter gear teeth to the edge of the starter. The starter body itself was 3" in diameter but the nose/flange assembly measures about 3.25" in diameter right in front of the starter gear. I'll get some additional measurements off the block for you the first chance I get.

Regards

Scott

Works for me Scott. 3.25 - (1.25 x 2) = a 3/4" pinion root and so far everything holds. Cut 1/8" off the fixturing boss, maybe a bit less for gear clearance. With a 2-3/4" starter body no trimming required there. BUT this holds if the fixturing boss is horizontally on center with the starter shaft. If it is not, less or possibly no trimming is required.

On to the snout. My guess, we'll have to grind the side a bit.

Jim

Just to refresh, a starter like this is what Scott was contemplating. Looks very doable.