Engine and Transmission Tech

I found another factory small starter. 1.4kw planetary gear. Would bolt on like Northstar but much smaller. GM Ecotec/Suzuki Forenza:






Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2013 09:26PM by mgb260.

Interesting, any chance of getting dimensions?

Jim

I was interested in what was inside one of these mini starters and found this. It's not very good quality wise and the guy's an idiot. The interesting part for me stars at about 2:50. Turn the sound down. :)



Scott

I guess you are talking about the quality of the video vs the starter, since we can't tell much about the starter from that mess. Looks like the starter is designed to easily be rotated on its mount. Could be a handy feature.

At this point I would be curious about two things: Whether cutting down the Tilton style mounting block would allow it to bolt directly to the engine block if the right holes were drilled and tapped, and whether the Ecotek/Forenza starter will fit without cutting anything.

Jim

I take it no one thinks that a Belted Alternator/Starter could be coaxed into cranking this engine.

I wondered about that one too, Carl

Interesting idea, and it leads to others.
We had a tractor with a starter/generator. It wasn't particularly good but it worked and even now nearly 30 years later it is in use on Matthew's old go cart where it starts an old Wisconsin engine. Based on that application, look at the speed reduction. To get enough torque to crank over the engine reliably a standard starter uses a reduction of 15:1 or greater. Now multiply by operating speed and 6000 rpm becomes 90,000 rpm. Not many starter motors are going to survive that speed, so better technology is needed.

However, this newer technology already exists in the newer hybrid vehicles in the form of a flywheel motor/generator which can both run the transmission and/or start the engine. I have not seen one yet but here is a link:

[www.kwikwap.co.za]

A multi-disc clutch would be most suitable with this arrangement to get adequate capacity in a package that fits inside the rotor.
In the future we will be seeing more and more of these as hybrid vehicles become more common and the manufacturers recognize the advantages of eliminating wear prone mechanical parts. It may currently be possible to find parts from an existing vehicle that could be used, eliminating the alternator in the process. Perhaps one of the larger hybrids.

Jim

We need some CPR here. Where did everybody go? This was one of my fav threads!

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We need some CPR here. Where did everybody go? This was one of my fav threads!

Carl,

They probably went here: [www.fordracingparts.com]

PS: are you coming to the April Fool's Bash on the 30th?

Ha! Such blasphemy! This is a Chevy thread.

I would love to be there Dan, but it is Baseball season. My daughter, Piper, has decided to play a 9th season of Little League, so I'm on the hook to help coach the team again (my 13th year). We will not be practicing during Spring Break, so there is a chance.

Just discovered that a LS engine will fit nicely in an Infiniti G35. Hmmm......

I went to pick up one of these on Monday but didn't. It was supposed to only have 8,000 miles on it but was in a shed at the yard where it had been since 07. Maybe I should have made a low offer.

Dan and clan, unless the ad specifically states, "no low ballers", I almost always do. My experience is most sellers start out asking considerably more, than they will ultimately accept. It will hurt their feelings, even more, if you don't make a counter offer, and just walk. I just bought a "track day car", that had been free-falling, pricewise on craigslist, for some time. I made a 30% lower offer, and settled on 28%. I suspect these LS series motors, will find a lot of future homes, in lbc's. Good Luck, roverman.

No lack of enthusiasm for this here. I've been really busy with work and getting my fender, hood and valence ready to paint...Omaha is only 3 months away!

Although I'm not going to go this route, I was playing around with the Northstar starter measurements I took and sort of mocked things up like this trying to see how it might fit just for general information.



I tried to model the diameter of the starter body which is 3" and the larger 3 1/4" diameter of the nose. Also cut a 1" disk which is the diameter of the starter gear on an old V6 FWD starter I have laying around. This is very rough so if it matters to you, you should measure it yourself but with the fixturing boss removed, the oil pan bolt castings on the block come into play in how close the starter can be moved to the flywheel. I don't see how a starter with a 3" diameter body could work with a 142 tooth flywheel. It looks like the only hope would be a 148 tooth flywheel and even then it would be very close.

I hope to get a mini-starter here very soon. I'll post some pictures when I do.

Regards

Scott

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Omaha is only 3 months away!

Oh crap! I haven't touched my car since last fall & now it's time for Little League!

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Maybe I should have made a low offer.

Yep. Maybe go back in a week or so, Dan.

The 215 I've been abusing for the last 12 years spent 15 years in a closet, rebuilt & waiting for me to come buy it for $600.

Scott, The video to me, looks like you can bolt the mini starter to a plate and use a shim as your template.

Here is a photo of the Buick mini starter that we used on the MG-Roadmaster and the 340 SBB. It also should fit the Buick V6 and I think the typical application at the parts store is SBC.



The body right behind the mounting bolts measures 2-15/16" diameter. The bolt boss on the inside brings that out to 3-1/8", so it sticks out 3/16" more on that side. Which means we'd need 1-19/32" from the pinion centerline to the side of the block. More measuring would be needed to see if the gears mesh but I think this is a great candidate if you are willing to weld and build up a pad on the block flange then drill and tap mounting holes.

Jim

My mini starter showed up this week. I'll try to get some pictures and measurements posted tomorrow. It looks really promising.